I have a friend who has been doing NASA HPDEs in his 94 Vx hatch swapped to Si specs. This winter he has been working on race prep for Honda Challenge H4 and is replacing his current suspension setup.

Currently: GAB Revo Stroke II coilovers with 15k front 9k rear springs 205-50-15 Falken azenis and no swaybars. Car is 2250 with driver and has an 8 pt cage

He will be swaping to PIC coilovers (since the GAB are 8 years old and have 250k miles on them) and running the required Toyo RA1s in 205-50-15 on 15x7 et42 rims.

Before spending the $$$ wanted to know if it is possible to run competativly without swaybars or does he need to add them.

If so does he need front & rear or just one....what size.

This is not an unlimited budget build and most $$$ is being spent on safety gear so he is hoping to not get them if possible.

 

What would be the new spring rates?

 

Thinking of staying around the same...but has a call into Al @ PIC for some advice.

Currently has alittle understeer with 3 degrees negative camber in the front on 205 Azenis...bit is releativly neutral in the turns. The Toyos should help alittle with the understeer.

 

I'm a little surprised that the rear is so soft. I daily drive/track PIC 10k/8k setup w/24mm front and 22mm comptech rear bar on a 98ex coupe. I would think that you still need a beefy rear bar with springs that soft in the rear.

 

Ok he has spoken with PIC and they suggest starting with the R3 12k front 14k rear and adding an adjustable rear sway bar.

It will be easy enought to purchase an additional set of springs to tune the setup if necessary.

Any suggestions on good adjustanle rear swaybars for a 92-95 civic that did not come with one?

 

ASR

 

I tried an Addco rear bar in my Prelude and it was way too much oversteer. I then used a set of poly sway bar bushings around the bar and that worked perfectly for my set-up and car. When looking for that extra few tenths, testing will be the only way to determine what is best for the car AND driver. I tend to like more oversteer than others who have driven my car.

If he's fairly new to racing, there maybe other places better for him to spend his money one.

 

Lo-Buck...the ASR is the nicest out but I dont see that is adjustable?

Gran...dont worry he already has your book

 

that setup just seems to be the exact opposite of what alot of competitive cars are running. but if he has an understeer problem now try increasing the rear spring rates or by adding a stiffer rear bar.

but most competitive cars seem to run stiffer rates in the back with a bigger bar.

everyone has their own thing though

CJ

 

The 12k front 14k rear is the opposite of what folks run?

Side note: JRD my friend who I am referring to is the guy who bought the Kirkey seat from you (REDRAGN53 - Matthew)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lucid Moments &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lo-Buck...the ASR is the nicest out but I dont see that is adjustable?
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http://www.asrparts.com/ the arms have 4 holes in them. theres your adjustment. yes, its probably too much bar for the guy. but i dont care.

 

I have disconnected my front sway bar and continue to use the USDM ITR 22mm rear swaybar. Perfect amount oversteer and correctable. Increasing the spring rates on my setup would cause excessive amounts, right?

 

The R3's are 12k in the front, 14k in the rear. That is a stiffer spring in the rear. It's worked extremely well for all the users who we've kept in touch with.

I think we are talking about Matt Rushton? I tried calling the number I got, but I *think* it is his work # and that was on Saturday.

 

oh! sorry i read it in the original post of the stiffer rates in front by a long shot. didn't comprehend hes going with a 12k-14k setup.

CJ

 

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LOL. But what is he going to do with all of the other money?

Are your shocks adjustable in damper? What is your current alignment? There are many ways to approach this.

 

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Overall... correct. Obvisouly depends on the amount of increase in the rear, etc. etc.

I am currently on 800lb/950lb with stock front rollbar and 23mm rear. This setup is pretty neutral and safe. I don't drive the car much so when I am on the track, don't wan't any surprises . However, if I was trying to be competitive, probably would run the following setup:
800lb front/1100 lb rear and probably play with no front sway and/or going to much larger rear bar to overcome the large rear rates.

 

This is Matt logged in on Lucids account:

PIC: I have spoken with Mikey @ Factory 5 and Jim @ PIC, I will be going with R3s with the 12K - 14K setup and adding an ASR rear bar. Sorry I have not gotten to speak with you AL.


JRDBUILT: Sent you a PM

GRAN: The R3 are 8 way rebound adjustible...my old GAB were 4 way and I ran 3 degrees neg camber front 2 degrees rear on 205-50-15 Azenis with zero toe front 1/16 toe in the rear

 

Matt,

I wouldn't say swaybars are necessary - they can help or hurt. As we had discussed on the phone, the R3's alone would be a big jump from what you have now. Maybe get some seat time on the R3's first, and see how the car feels to you.

 

This is just my opinion and many will disagree with me, but here it goes...

The suspension of your car is made up of; tires, dampers, springs, and sway bars, camber, toe, caster, pressure. (just for simplicities sake we will leave out things like chassis and bushings).

Each one of the parts of your suspension effects different areas, a lot effect the same area but in different ways. If you class allows you to adjust/change/set any part of it why not take advantage of it. It's all part of the package and i wouldn't leave a part of the package out. Especially something like a sway bar, they are cheap!!!

This probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense but Eh i gave it a shot.

 

I agree with what you've said, but how does one know which one should be adjusted in order to obtain the desired change? I've been racing for a while now but still find it very challenging and rely on outside assistance.

Since he's new to racing, I personally think he should keep things fairly simple. Get a set-up that works, and spent a lot of time focusing on driving. Then start playing around more with set-up. Just my opinion of course.

 

Matt again...

Thanks for all the advice...I will start with The R3 12-14K setup and add a rear bar as soon as I can afford one...Alll my $$$ is really tied up in safety equipment for me and the car.

slammed_93_hatch (Jimmy)I see PDQ in your sig...do you know Roger Foo?

The GAB REVOs I just took off were from his Laguna Seca Yellow EG (long story but i could not get the swaybars and he ran them 9 front 15 rear with type r bars I believe)...that guy is awesome in a Honda!

Are you still running an EG in H4 this year? What is you setup for suspension and any tricks you have to help keep my D16Z alive?

 

Gran i do agree, and even the top engineers don't always make the correct call. Me, im still so new to this that i just drive my setup, and i keep getting faster. Once i hit my "benchmark" then i will start to change stuff, untill then sway bar, tire pressure, and shock adjustments are all i am making.

And i also agree he should put a setup on and just drive it, i think that setup should include a front bar though .


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lucid Moments &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
slammed_93_hatch (Jimmy)I see PDQ in your sig...do you know Roger Foo?

The GAB REVOs I just took off were from his Laguna Seca Yellow EG (long story but i could not get the swaybars and he ran them 9 front 15 rear with type r bars I believe)...that guy is awesome in a Honda!

Are you still running an EG in H4 this year? What is you setup for suspension and any tricks you have to help keep my D16Z alive?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes i know Roger, i have crewed for PDQ since 03 or 04. He drives for them.

haha that is pretty crazy about the suspension. And yes he is awesome in anything really!

I have been running my car in H4 spec since i got my license ill just run in H1 if that is the only class that people are in. This year looks like we will have 3-6 cars in H4 so it should be fun.

I run Koni 3011's, Civic Si front bar, comptech rear bar, Omni power UCA, Spherical bearings in the inner LCA and the compliance bushing.

The z6 is a difficult motor, many people have issues with z6 in road race organizations. I had one built and it didn't make ANY power, less that 110hp. I spent good money on this motor.

PDQ suggested that i should buy a built motor from JC Motorsports Services. He builds awesome motors that last and make great power. So I did, and that is what i am running right now. It is an awesome motor.

I would suggest if you are interested in running any of the stuff i run you contact PDQ motorsport. I buy all of my parts from them, and they can get you in contact with JC motorsports. PDQ motorsports is also who setup my car.

Sometimes Mike Quan (PDQ motorsports) posts on here, and even less often Roger posts on here.