just wondering if a stock F22 series block is just a solid piece or is it considered a damper? im wondering cause im tryin to decide if to go brand new oem pulley or ati for my 400whp+(the goal) boosted accord.

 

i believe there a solid balanced unit

 

They have a rubber damper in them. Any Honda that has AC and PS will have this.

I would still go with the ATI or a Fluidamper.

 

if you have the extra money for one, go with the aftermarket damper.

I dont think make one for the f22 specifically so you will need to go with something like a h23/ h22 damper.

honestly though, depending on your budget and how far past 400whp we are talking about... a stock pulley would be ok I would venture to say.

 

honda pullies arent harmonic dampers...they have a ring of rubber nothing like a V8..here is a quote from Unorthodox's website i have ran several of there pullys for years on many cars.....

"The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley making them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress noise from the engine accessories; the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to realize in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda B & D Series engines"

 

Pretty much all wrong...

All factory honda crank pulleys ( and i would venture to say every OEM crank pulley is a damper ).


The heavy'ness of the damper is what dampens the shock of each individual cylinder firing so that is why you see damage sometimes on engines that run light weight dampers..

"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure.

To prevent this vibration, a harmonic balancer is attached to the front part of the crankshaft. The damper is composed of two elements: a mass and an energy dissipating element. The mass resists the acceleration of the vibration and the energy dissipating (rubber/clutch/fluid) element absorbs the vibrations.

Over time, the energy dissipating (rubber/clutch/fluid) element can deteriorate from age, heat, cold, or exposure to oil or chemicals. Unless rebuilt or replaced, this can cause the crankshaft to develop cracks, resulting in crankshaft failure."

 

i agree they are a damper and are ballanced....but are not full of rubber like a V8 just a ring of siolation cut one upen and look....i have ran several light weight unorthorodox pullys and no problem **** one car has 220,000 miles on one and still runs strong

 

why does it need to be full of rubber? a damper dampens the firing of each cylinder, it does that by slowing down the instant rush of force applied to the crank, its able to slow that force because it is very heavy and hard to set in motion because of its weight, so why does it need to be full of rubber to be effective?

 

honestly if you have any type of 4cly engine it benefits to have a harmonic balancer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by agrn93ls &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pretty much all wrong...

All factory honda crank pulleys ( and i would venture to say every OEM crank pulley is a damper ).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Incorrect, the CTR N1 pulley does not have any damper and this is because the car has no AC or PS. The rubber ring serves as an isolator for the PS and AC.

 

are ATI and Fluidamper also lighter than stock? I would feel better running a pulley thats the same weight as oem.

I am keeping PS but dont have a/c, the car is gonna be daily driven.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White Smoke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Incorrect, the CTR N1 pulley does not have any damper and this is because the car has no AC or PS. The rubber ring serves as an isolator for the PS and AC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you are saying the pulley itself is not a damper? Just because a pulley does not have multiple pieces, or is not filled with blah blah, does not mean it does not dampen, the weight of the pulley is what dampens...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honestly if you have any type of 4cly engine it benefits to have a harmonic balancer. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you have any type of any engine period it benefits to have a harmonic balancer/damper.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aleks77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are ATI and Fluidamper also lighter than stock? I would feel better running a pulley thats the same weight as oem.

I am keeping PS but dont have a/c, the car is gonna be daily driven.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they are heavier than stock, the mass of the damper is part of why it works.

 

every mechanic shop I've ever delt with has stated that they are the same thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aleks77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just wondering if a stock F22 series block is just a solid piece or is it considered a damper? im wondering cause im tryin to decide if to go brand new oem pulley or ati for my 400whp+(the goal) boosted accord.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I think a couple people here are using maybe the wrong terminology?

The rubber insert in a Harmonic Balancer/Damper has nothing to do with the dampening that we are considering here, the dampening that needs to be considered is dampening the shock of the idividual cylinder firing and its effect on the crank... The weight of the "damper" dampens that... the rubber ring as I read on wikipedia anyway, is to help with harmonic noises and pulses caused by the accessories driven by the crank pulley.


But all that you need as far as you are concerned aleks77 is a pulley with some mass and i bet you money that OE one has alot... Now if it is enough for your setup that I do not know I do not have experience with the aftermarket balancers/dampers.. But as Tony1 said the aftermarkets are heavier which in turn means safer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EASY101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">every mechanic shop I've ever delt with has stated that they are the same thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what is the same thing? a balancer and a damper? if that what you meant then yes.

They are harmonic balacer's because they dampen the shock that causes harmful harmonics to start.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by agrn93ls &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what is the same thing? a balancer and a damper? if that what you meant then yes.

They are harmonic balacer's because they dampen the shock that causes harmful harmonics to start.</TD></TR></TABLE>

crank shaft pulley vs. harmonic balancer = same thing, yes thats what I've been told numerous times by certified mechanics.

 

Hondas are internally balanced;

Just make sure everything you put on the crankshaft is balanced itself or your bearings will be hurting...

 

the only thing that will ever be on my crank is fluidamper, ati, or oem thats why i gota brand new oem damper i like my crank and bearings

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by agrn93ls &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I think a couple people here are using maybe the wrong terminology?

The rubber insert in a Harmonic Balancer/Damper has nothing to do with the dampening that we are considering here, the dampening that needs to be considered is dampening the shock of the idividual cylinder firing and its effect on the crank... The weight of the "damper" dampens that... the rubber ring as I read on wikipedia anyway, is to help with harmonic noises and pulses caused by the accessories driven by the crank pulley.


But all that you need as far as you are concerned aleks77 is a pulley with some mass and i bet you money that OE one has alot... Now if it is enough for your setup that I do not know I do not have experience with the aftermarket balancers/dampers.. But as Tony1 said the aftermarkets are heavier which in turn means safer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm glad I caught this because it is wrong. The rubber is exactly what dampens the torsional vibrations. Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia, that stuff can be written by anyone and is not confirmed correct. There are two pieces, an inner and outer tuned weight. The inertia of the outer weight causes the rubber to flex and absorb the torsional vibrations from the crank. Some dampers use springs instead.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boost4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the only thing that will ever be on my crank is fluidamper, ati, or oem thats why i gota brand new oem damper i like my crank and bearings </TD></TR></TABLE>

These are not the type of vibrations that affect bearing life but they can damage the oil pump and everything running off of the timing belt.

 

i think im gonna get me a fluidamper or ati, i was thinkin oem at first, but this is a fully built engine that cost me quiet a bit of money, and i wanna protect it as much as possible heh

anyone know if H series will fit my F series?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleepencivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i agree they are a damper and are ballanced....but are not full of rubber like a V8 just a ring of siolation cut one upen and look....i have ran several light weight unorthorodox pullys and no problem **** one car has 220,000 miles on one and still runs strong </TD></TR></TABLE>

The V8 dampeners I've work with (dealt with **** from 283ci chevies to 460ci fords) are basicly a hub with a weight around it that's connected with the same rubber Hondas are. Its just that a V8 needs much more dampening due to its design, not just the 3-5x increase in mass over a Honda.

If you look, you'll only find the solid pullyes on the small/econo motors. All the motors meant to spin another 1000 rpm have the rubber. The N1 was meant for motors rebuild every 1-4 races.


BTW if you look it up, harmonics aren't exactly the rotational pulses. The typical inline-4 has vibrations that basicly try shaking either end of the crank up & down. They recommend balance shafts for inline-4's bigger than 1.8L, and guess which motors Honda put balance shafts in.

 

so is the fluidampr that much better over an ati solid sfi approved damper. I just dont wana worry about oil pumps like ive read. For 400hp i wouldn't ever worry about an aftermarket pulley. I would prefer OEM at all times anyways.

 

so 400whp stick to oem? a fluidamper piece wouldnt do much good?