What do you guys think k20a k20a2 k24a2? I am putting this in a 98 cx ek for circuit racing. Looking at maybe making a few Honda Challenge events in the NASA circuit and maybe going further than that. I appreciated all the info.

 

Read the rulebook before you pick up a wrench.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/r...e.pdf

Read that CAREFULLY. And if it doesn't say you CAN do something, then you CAN'T.
If you want to be running a K-swapped car, you'll be in H1. That's the fastest class, and also the most expensive. If you're a beginner (I'm guessing the answer is yes), you'll want to start with something slower and cheaper. The reasons:
-Slower car develops the driver better
-Slower cars are not as hard on wear items, so you'll buy less of them (tires, brakes, bushings, bearings, etc.)
-Slower cars are cheaper to fix/replace when you hit something (when, not if)
-Slower cars are cheaper period to buy, so you can put the extra money into track time (which is the most important part of learning how to drive)

 

not including the price of the car, expect to spend around $15,000 + in parts and cage to have descently setup H1 car.. . Look at my SN and pic, I should know.. .

If I was going for H1, I'd be buying a prebuilt H4 EG civic or DC2 teg. Race it for a year and then buy the H1 motor setup.. .

You can buy a H4 or H2 car already built, ready to race and with spares for less than $10,000. I've seen a few Honda H4/H5/ITB/ITA cars for less than $5,000

In 2007 the hot ticket motor was K24a2 or whatever the newest TSX-S motor is.. . K24 motor is suppose to be a little more reliable as far as piston speeds not being as high as the K20 for the amount of power you get.

I'm not sure of 2008 rules but the K20a2/a's might be favorable for a few reasons.

Getting started, the K20a Type R motor is probably the best bang for the buck with the higher compression, the better cams and of course, stock LSD and better gears so you don't have to break the bank with aftermarket LSD right off the bat.. .

I track a 95 civic with K20a2 without LSD, 210whp , 225 Toyo RA1s btw.. . Fun as hell and runs very well. Learning curve was steep to get fast though. Has taken about 1.5 yrs and 8 HPDE days to put me about 3 seconds on average faster than spec Miatas. HPDE time vs their qualifying/race times. I've been told to be a good running H1 car you need to be AT LEAST 3-5 seconds faster on average than the local FASTEST spec miata guys.. .

 

Technically both the k24a2 and k20a have benefits, but overall stock for stock, the k20a would be the right choice.

 

I have been reading the rulebook, but just like some building codes it can be hard to follow.

I am new to circuit racing, but have have about 2 years in scca. Knowing that this racing is much different I know that there will be alot of change and challenge (otherwise I wouldn't be looking at doing it).

The reason that I am looking into the k swap is for dependability and just plain tired of not having what I want in my race car. Having driven similar setups, but not exactly this car I feel comfortable with the change. If that means taking more time for multiple HPDE in preparation for getting into competitive racing, I actually really look forward to it. And I could use the education.

I am actually selling all of the misc. stuff I have to put this k-swap in my car.
Here is the setup as follows:

96 civic cx
on the car
omnipower full race coilovers
omnipower front and rear camber kits
omnipower rear lower control arm
energy suspension bushings
rota wheels with street tires
cheap race seats
g-force 5-point harness
5-point roll cage

wish list
motor and exhaust

I am already most of the way there, but like you said I need to make for sure what I can and cannot have for the class eventually. My thought process is that this will give me a setup to start doing HPDE and get some seat time with the car. Then I can add, delete or replace what I already have for the car for the spec materials that I will need. Since some of this stuff came on or with the car when I got it.

As far as investment wise I really don't have too much money in the car at this moment. Just use the money I make off of car deals to do this.

BTW what do you guys think about this setup? Thanks for the input.

 

When you say you have 2 years experience with SCCA, what does that mean exactly? Autox or something? Do you have any personal experience building a RACE car?

What questions about the rules did you not understand?
To give you a very brief overview of what's allowed for what you're thinking...

Minimum vehicle weight with driver:
w/K20 = 2400lb, engine compression limited to 12.0:1
w/K24 = 2450lbs, engine compression limited to 11.0:1
-You are not allowed nitrous oxide, any kind of forced induction, or a dry sump oiling setup.
-To VERY briefly and incompletely describe the engine rules: Everything in the bottom end must be OEM with the exception of bearings. Specifically for the K-series this gets further restrictive.
-You must use ALL specific K-series parts for that particular K-series engine bottom-end. Meaning if you have a K20, you must use K20 pistons, K20 rods, and K20 crank If you have a K24, you must use K24 pistons, rods, and crank.
-You must use an unmodified K-series intake manifold.
-You may use any OEM throttle body, provided the outlet size is 62mm or less.
-Head porting is limited to 1" from the outside for intake tracts, exhaust tracts, and intake manifold.
-Exhaust manifold is open.
-Any OEM ECU with piggyback is allowed (K-pro, I THINK AEM EMS maybe)

PHEW. I think that's it for the engine stuff. To be safe, especially if you're a noob, it would be best to start with a 100% OEM untouched K-series.

Suspension: What you have is legal. External reservoirs start complicating things (additional weight).

Lastly, you say you have a "5-point rollcage." What exactly is that? I'm familiar only with a 4-point bar (main hoop, two rear arms), 6-point (the same, but with two forward arms), and so on. Putting a cage together is a whole other subject, and has it's own lengthy section in the CCR. Read that VERY carefully if/when you go to have a cage built for you.

I'm exhausted just getting all that **** together. If you have any specific questions, post them up.

 

Yes I have been doing SCCA autox for about two years total. As far as building a full out race car, this would be my first. I have done plenty of motor swaps, suspension installations and brake swaps but that is really about it. I do also have an electronics background and have converted harnesses and troubleshot that kind of stuff. Really I am just new to this website.

I agree with you about the engine. Just a stock k20a or k24a2 is what I am looking at running w/ kpro. I think that it is going to be beneficial for me to run a stock motor get used to the car and then maybe think about a modified motor build. Really need some seat time on some tracks, but I am new to the area and just learning about some of the surrounding ones. Don't really know anybody around here either.

One of my questions is about the trans. Can I run a k20a trans with a k24a2 engine? I really need to read through the rules with a fine tooth comb.

Yea the 5-point cage. I bought the car with this in it and I know it is going to have to be redone or modified. Main hoop, two rears, and one front on the drivers side. Don't ask me why they did it that way, but I know it's not going to fly. This will have to be done by someone else with welding skills and an understanding of what I will need to meet the class requirements.

I really do appreciate the help on this topic. Always helps for me to talk to someone about this stuff.

 

Yeah, you'll definitely need that cage redone. That is really weird that anyone would do that though.

For the trans, you can use whatever K-series trans with whatever K-series motor, and final drive is open to whatever you want to put in there (though all the other gearing must remain original, I believe).

If you haven't been on track before, it would be a good idea to start with a slower engine, at least for a few events. If you're starting off with a shell, don't bother, but if you already have a motor in the car (be it D-series, B-series, whatever), stick with that to start. It'll ultimately make you a better driver. While you do have some autox experience, on-track driving is very different.

 

It is just a shell without a motor. Another reason I am looking at a k-motor is because the passenger mount bracket has already been removed (from the previous owners k-swap). I have a gsr and all that stuff, but really think that I am just going with the k.

I might take out another one of my cars that is stock at an event or two.

The info on the trans is really what I was curious about. And I know, the cage looks like a mistake, but it is well built and will do until I get competitive. Thanks again for the info and the help.

 

Gotcha. Yeah, for your first event or two, take out the stock car. Some pics of the car and especially the cage would be helpful.