Talking about modified stock units.

Im curious as to how many people are interested in having their stock ones modified.

How much total shock travel, minus the bump stop length do dampers on hondas have? How much bump travel is setup in your configuration?

What kind of cost are people being charged to get this done? Is that cost fair?
GCs are ~$240 for 4, would like $125 be fair for 4 modified ones?

thanks for taking the time.


Modified by dfoxengr at 9:16 PM 1/2/2008

 

so for those of you who dont want them done, i assume you have lowered your car.

can you please tell me how much total shock travel you have, and then how much bump travel you have at installed height(include the bump stop heights as well.)?

thanks

 

thanks for the responses. can anyone discuss why they do not want it done if their car is lowered and they race?

 

even the best hack and weld job to a stock unit
wont compare in quality to a $110 ground control unit.

 

im sorry you feel that way. i dont think that a modified job would lack quality, and im sorry that you think anything not CNC made is not quality. i guess you should think more about that and the things you have done to your car. probably lacking a lot of quality there. but GC top hats they say only work with GC slipons.
thats one reason why im asking about this.

so please dont come here and be negative as im trying to get information, and youre just letting everyone see your bad opinions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im sorry you feel that way. i dont think that a modified job would lack quality, and im sorry that you think anything not CNC made is not quality. i guess you should think more about that and the things you have done to your car. probably lacking a lot of quality there. but GC top hats they say only work with GC slipons.
thats one reason why im asking about this.

so please dont come here and be negative as im trying to get information, and youre just letting everyone see your bad opinions.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What is your problem
here you are asking for help and the first and only person to try to help you, you say are being negative and have bad opinions.
Unless I'm crazy I never said cnc machine is the only way to go. sorry you can't read. but for the record if im building a race car you better believe i'm using cnc parts when i can speccially for suspension. so dont go bad mouthing the decisions i have made on my car when you dont even know me.

If you dont want people's opinions than don't go posting stuff on the interenet.

sorry for trying to help.

 

your opinion was very negative, and it seemed like you were saying that welding couldnt do the job properly.
sorry if you misunderstood me.

 

GC top hats will work with any coil-over. The OD on the strut/damper that you use can't be larger then the ID on the GC mount.

You would have to take that into account when you do the home made one too.

You also probably wont have that 'inner ring' like the stock unit and the GC ones.

I also agree with the above statement. If you are trying to do this as a product, i don't see it being a real money maker.

 

He's trying to sell them so he flipped out when you said something that might hurt his sales.

Fox, are you really looking for honest opinions, or are you trying to do some free market research before introducing a new product?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jeff_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He's trying to sell them so he flipped out when you said something that might hurt his sales.

Fox, are you really looking for honest opinions, or are you trying to do some free market research before introducing a new product?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Obvious reason for being so defensive.

 

I use the GC mounts because with a 2.25" spring and no spring isolator, the stock mounts don't have a flat surface for the upper spring seat. I don't need the extra travel and end up filling that travel with packers to get the bumpstops to work righ, so a CNC'd upper mount and bearing at standard height would be better still for me.

 

i didnt flip out, i guess i was just trying to say that there could be a better way of putting it thats all. and i dont think a weld is less of quality than the cnc piece. just another way of doing it.

and yes i do want honest opinions. and if i were trying to offer this service, then it wouldnt be so much as to make much money because i realize that there wont be much in it, but i would like to offer another service to my current ones, and expand. this i feel will also help out people who dont want to get the GCs for whatever reason.

another thing is that the GC ones are a generic length, and everyone's setup is different so i feel that a custom length one to your application is better. right?

thanks for the input and keep it coming.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't extended hats unnecessary on lowered cars with shortened/proper length race shocks? I know there was a time when most high performance shock options were OEM length, but is that still the case? I've had three different sets of dampers on my EF in the last two years and NONE of them were OEM length...

I don't recall ever seeing a civic or integra in SoCal Honda Challenge with extended hats except for the ones that some of the Tein units come stock with. If there's a market for such a product, it doesn't seem like it would be with the racers. Or am I missing something?

 

they do make shorter dampers, but thats also limiting your travel. so i guess to answer your ? this is probably more for those who use the OEM length dampers, and want to get as much travel in the correct places as possible.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they do make shorter dampers, but thats also limiting your travel.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So's lowering the car in the first place...

 

Well, I feel that the Extended Tophats is a good idea in some applications, but unnecessary in others. In my 92 Civic, at full load of a corner (front), my upper control arm (or A arm, OmniPower) hits the shock tower top before my damper bottoms out. I'm using a stock length Ohlin shock.

However, in a buddy's 94 Prelude that I work on, the car had trouble getting enough travel without a ridiculously high ride height using Skunk 2 coilovers and Koni Yellows. So some modifications were necessary. Rather than doing the top hat since I didn't have any right sized pipe ready (and being too cheap to purchase the GC peices), I lowered the shock about an inch and a half and raised the spring to compensate. I ended up with the ideal ride height and travel.

This cost some time, that was it.

 

From what I've seen autoxing and tracking a couple of different Honda chassis the front tires hit the inside of the fender wells or the upper control arms hit the top of the fender well. So more travel is not needed is it can not be used.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems like most people want 1" added in the front, and 1" or 1.5" added in the rear.
thanks for taking the time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I also have not found this to be true either. I was one of the first people to get a set of the SSPS3 shocks from Koni for our CSP CRX about 3 years ago. At the time I had spoke with Lee Grimes a number of times as we had sent 2 other sets of shocks back to him for shortening and revalving. It was his take that the rears really do not need to be shortened on a Honda and the only reason Koni did it with their "Race" shock line is so people didn't ask the question; Why not do the rears. Lee has raced Honda's for many years and works for one if not the most racer friendly shock company's out there so if they say they don't need it then I'll take is word for it. Also Lee is very assessable if you have any question you can pick up the phone and give him a shout. FYI This is tough time to get ahold of anyone at Koni as they are very busy with all of the racers getting their orders in for the 08 season. But he does return phone calls.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So's lowering the car in the first place...</TD></TR></TABLE>

and thats what the top hats correct.

EVERYONE keep in mind that a price i believe to be fair for all 4 modified units is half of what GC charges for all 4(~$240)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vbspec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From what I've seen autoxing and tracking a couple of different Honda chassis the front tires hit the inside of the fender wells or the upper control arms hit the top of the fender well. So more travel is not needed is it can not be used.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point. that would need to be assessed on a case by case basis.

 

anyone else have any input?

 

the length of the extended tophat up front is going to be limited by hood clearance. I run the GC hats on my EF with revalved koni yellows, and the top of the shock adjuster touches the sound deadening material under the hood, but not the hood itself. So if you do make them, I wouldn't make them any taller than the GC units (at least for the 88-91 civic).

I don't see why making them yourself would be a bad thing if it saves money. a good quality weld is going to be stronger than the surrounding metal anyway, as long as workmanship is good. If a good quality pipe material is used, it should be just as good as the GC units.

 

yeah thats why i dont understand why people were getting upset.
especially if theyre like half the price of GC

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

good point. that would need to be assessed on a case by case basis.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What would be assessed? If you are going to have customers bring their cars to you and have you take all the time to take what ever measurements your going to take to make these "custom" tophats, then the time to build the unit and you are going to sell them for half $50 I think you are shooting your self in the foot and selling yourself short. I can assure you that as soon as you tell a customer that these units are going to be built for their specific car you had better add in an hour or two of your time because they are going to ask a ton of questions. And that time is money. I have a friend who owns a shop here in town and guys are constantly hanging out and asking him all kinds of questions during the day. But that's how he runs his business and because of that he works late into the the night many nights to keep up.

Again (not to sound like a dick) I think you are trying to reinvent the wheel. There is a product on the market for this need. Also shock manufactures are now offering solutions to this same problem so I don't see it as a money maker. Now if you are just doing this for the sake of doing it, and the build experience then by all means best of luck.

 

i wont be inspecting their stuff. theyll give me dimensions and ill make them accordingly.

and its mostly for the sake of doing it, and to help people get something at a much much cheaper price.

thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone else have any input?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do. This may sound rude, but finish reading it before getting upset.

If you are trying to design a product that you will sell, why don't you take the time and energy actually try making one? I mean, get a car there, and extend the upper mounts, that will answer all of your questions. One of the biggest problems that I regularly see in this whole import car 'tuning' industry is that nobody takes the time to design, engineer, and test a part. You simply want us to fill in your blanks, have some people on the internet send you some measurements, and profit.

Seriously, America is SCREWED.........

[/rant]