Basically I just want to know if you can use stock retainers and keepers with S2pro1 springs and cams, and if you can, how much your rpm before valve float will reduced by the slightly heavier retainer, or if the oem retainer is suitable at all with this combo. It seems like quite a few people have had their titanium retainers start to "gall", or wear, and I don't see the point in using them if they're not needed for a certain rev limit and are going to wear out. If the combo with titanium retainers is good to say, 10k rpm, (I don't know what it actually is) then the slightly heavier oem retainers are good to some % of that based on their increased mass, right? Anyone have a number? ...provided they won't break.

 

bump....also interested

 

You will need to check the retainer to valve seal clearance. NEW stock retainers are OK. The clearance may be a problem. You cannot get a general yes or no,as all heads have a + or- tolerance. Some heads may have the guides higher or lower, as long as they clear Factory cams Honda is happy.

 

I have a theory on what you mean, but I'm not sure. Could you elaborate? Aren't the distances between the bottom of the oem retainer and an aftermarket retainer to the guide the same?

Still wondering about the weight difference/valve float thing..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a theory on what you mean, but I'm not sure. Could you elaborate? Aren't the distances between the bottom of the oem retainer and an aftermarket retainer to the guide the same?

Still wondering about the weight difference/valve float thing..</TD></TR></TABLE>


no the distance is not always the same.. some have different designs.. when you put in high lift cams you need to measure this..

 

titanium retainers are made thinner to allow for higher lift cams, but the other point was the guides are not going to be at a set height in the end. the valve seal may still hit if you don't specifically check it.

 

Okay, that makes sense. What about the strength and mass of the oem retainer vs the S2 titanium one though?
I also don't know how the pro1 springs compare to the stock springs. I know they're softer than supertechs, but that's about it.. Just wondering how much force those springs would actually exert on the retainers.

 

jus do it right the first time, and change out the valvetrain. u can jus the regular skunk ones instead of pro series valve springs and retainers.

 

i dont think he is trying to save money...he wants reliability on a d/d because he and many others have heard about titanium retainers wearing, chipping...they are high mainteance...would NEW itr retainers and keepers be good for his setup and efficent to what rev limit? i think thats what he is asking???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ricekiller1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think he is trying to save money...he wants reliability on a d/d because he and many others have heard about titanium retainers wearing, chipping...they are high mainteance...would NEW itr retainers and keepers be good for his setup and efficent to what rev limit? i think thats what he is asking???</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have seen it happen to on OTHER PEOPLES stuff... if everything is installed the right way this will not happen, well maybe if you use **** parts from the start. A good set of Ti ret and good springs will go a long way, always with proper install. the other day i disassembled one to change a few guides and they where still brand new after over 45k miles.

 

Well, saving money is a good thing..unless it costs you more in the future.. I've just read about the S2 titanium retainers being something that needs to be checked up on/maintained, and I don't like that. I assume that S2 parts are high quality, and if they have wear issues, probably all of them do. I don't want to quote people, but I can think of several people on here who've written that the S2 retainers chip around the edges and "gall", whatever that means.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by autox228 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">jus do it right the first time, and change out the valvetrain. u can jus the regular skunk ones instead of pro series valve springs and retainers. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you really just say to use the tuner series springs/retainers with the pro series cams? You think that's "doing it right"? Maybe the tuner series retainers, but certainly not the springs..and even that seems half assed. But I probably shouldn't say that, as I was just wondering about oem retainers and pro springs..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, saving money is a good thing..unless it costs you more in the future.. I've just read about the S2 titanium retainers being something that needs to be checked up on/maintained, and I don't like that. I assume that S2 parts are high quality, and if they have wear issues, probably all of them do. I don't want to quote people, but I can think of several people on here who've written that the S2 retainers chip around the edges and "gall", whatever that means.</TD></TR></TABLE>

they have to tell you that for liability... i have used Skunk stuff for well over 100k miles with no such chipping galling or anything.. i have seen people fok them up in less that 400 miles mostly people with blown engines... trust me you will not have problems, install them right and all your worries will be gone.

oh btw i have seen stock ret wear with upgraded springs... wow stock ones with wear, YES anything installed with the *** will wear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

they have to tell you that for liability... </TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you mean? A private S2 customer is liable for damages if they tell me that the product they bought will last forever? ..lol. I'm just talking about people on here who've experienced problems with the S2 retainers firsthand. One of the guys in mind has a nice setup, and knows a lot about the different valvetrain options/setups, so when he wrote that, it gave me pause.

Well, f it, I'll guess I'll just get the titanium retainers, but I'm putting this whole thing off until the spring. $800+ in valvetrain upgrades..uuggghh. Does anyone know how high you can rev the whole pro series combo, just for the sake of curiosity?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Does anyone know how high you can rev the whole pro series combo, just for the sake of curiosity?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This question is quite common but irrelevant. You do not (won't) need to rev your engine past where it makes power. If you purchase the matching valvetrain to use with your cams, they will easily handle that rev range and more.

Valve float tends to happen when you're not running the correct springs rather than retainers. Valve float = loss of control of valve motion. Lightweight retainers only extend a springs operational rpm limit by 100-300 rpm typically so don't worry so much about part limits that you'll more than likely never reach. Unless you're involved in maximum effort racing all the time (high risk, engine operation) you will be fine using simple common sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did you really just say to use the tuner series springs/retainers with the pro series cams? You think that's "doing it right"? Maybe the tuner series retainers, but certainly not the springs..and even that seems half assed. But I probably shouldn't say that, as I was just wondering about oem retainers and pro springs.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i've ran the skunk pro1's with skunk tuner valves springs and retainers in my gsr with no problems and i daily drive it. its been over a year and still nutting wrong.

 

skunk themselves say the tuner springs are good for the pro 1's. not for the pro 2's/3's though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This question is quite common but irrelevant. You do not (won't) need to rev your engine past where it makes power. If you purchase the matching valvetrain to use with your cams, they will easily handle that rev range and more.

Valve float tends to happen when you're not running the correct springs rather than retainers. Valve float = loss of control of valve motion. Lightweight retainers only extend a springs operational rpm limit by 100-300 rpm typically so don't worry so much about part limits that you'll more than likely never reach. Unless you're involved in maximum effort racing all the time (high risk, engine operation) you will be fine using simple common sense.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for establishing the "irrelevence" of my question, when I already qualified it as solely for the sake of my curiosity.

autox228, sorry for implying what you said was half assed, I guess if S2 themselves say it's okay, then..

I'm just looking for some numbers with this thread, seems to be harder to get them than I anticipated.. I still appreciate the replies though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm just looking for some numbers with this thread, seems to be harder to get them than I anticipated.. I still appreciate the replies though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Easiest thing to do would be to take the rated RPM the valvetrain you're using is rated at and subtract 300 rpm (which as I said above is all titanium/aluminum retainers typically give you in extended rpm) and that would be very close.

 

I run Ti-Skunk Reatainers. Why not? Reliability? I through that out the window when I started Building the engine. Will a fully built motor pushing over 250hp ever see over 100k?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by night &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">skunk themselves say the tuner springs are good for the pro 1's. not for the pro 2's/3's though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did they check out ok when and if you clearance checked them? the retainer to valve stem seal clearance?

 

I went with the tuner springs and Ti-Retainers. Based on the fact that Skunk said they are good for all there Tuner Series Cams and the Pro-1. I dont ever see myself running anything more radical than a stage2 or Pro1 on a Daily driven/weekend warrior set up. I have been happy w/ them.

 

im just gonna get the crower chromemoly retainers for my supertech springs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HAPRECYCLING &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run Ti-Skunk Reatainers. Why not? Reliability? I through that out the window when I started Building the engine. Will a fully built motor pushing over 250hp ever see over 100k? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I'd prefer the engine to fail in as non catastrophic a way as possible..a valve hitting a piston would definitely not qualify as that in my book, considering the potential of that to destroy the majority of the motor..
I plan on my motor failing by breaking a sleeve.

p.s. I used to buy parts from places in sac all the time when I lived in cali, and you guys at HAP need to lower your damn prices! But at least you're not operated by the "romanian mafia", like Redline..lol

 

We are a little pricey, Im not going to doubt that. But you have to remember our buisness is more geared towards Insurance and dealerships, not the tuner market. I sale stuff cheap all the time. You have to build a realationship w/ your salesman.
All of our parts are top notch! We only buy the best of the best when it comes to our parts cars. The More you buy the better the deals get!