Just a heads up. This is in the new CCR. If you don't have one put it on your list of things to buy.

Here is the 2008 CCR:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

See section: 15.17.8

 

Also worth noting is that HANS announced at PRI a few weeks ago that they were introducing a new, lower priced version of their product. Last I checked, there was still nothing posted on their web site. But a quick phone call ought to get the straight info for anyone wanting to buy before the beginning of the season...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also worth noting is that HANS announced at PRI a few weeks ago that they were introducing a new, lower priced version of their product. Last I checked, there was still nothing posted on their web site. But a quick phone call ought to get the straight info for anyone wanting to buy before the beginning of the season...</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's under the PR section, I wasn't aware of it until Hbennet pointed it out.

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/sc.12/category.60/.f

HANS Device Sport Series Announced - December 3, 2007, $695

Also:
HANS Vision Advantage Plus Tethers - December 6, 2007
which are the new tethers that are supposed to allow more left to right movement of your head, which look pretty cool.

 

Plus HANS has a new sliding tether system. I bought my HANS a few months ago, and now I wish I waited! I'll probably pay the $65 to $100 for the sliding tether retrofit.

 

Does anyone know if there is supposed to be any decrease in safety with these new sliding tethers? If not I will be getting them to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anyone know if there is supposed to be any decrease in safety with these new sliding tethers? If not I will be getting them to.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wondered the opposite actually.

Because it allows your head to "move" side to side, the load on the HANS should "theoretically" be on both sides now instead of just 1 when your in a frontal offset impact.
That's my simple brain working though. I want to find out the answer to this and if so, I'll be sending mine in as well..

 

^^^ I believe HANS made a statement to that effect, as now the tethers will be equally loaded. Don't quote me though because I can't recall where I read this.

 

They have a Five year life span also. Better prepare to buy a new one ASAP. Bet the rules get changed to require replacement when belts are required to be replaced. (better for manufactures to sell stuff)

Guess I'll be racing with SCCA this year. Maybe next year I can afford to buy one and not try and go racing also.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They have a Five year life span also. Better prepare to buy a new one ASAP. Bet the rules get changed to require replacement when belts are required to be replaced. (better for manufactures to sell stuff)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you talking about a having to buy a new HANS every 5 years? HANS has a recert program that i think costs 15 bucks. You send them the device and they recert it per their standards. Basically as long as it's not cracked up...they are pretty stout pieces.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They have a Five year life span also. Better prepare to buy a new one ASAP. Bet the rules get changed to require replacement when belts are required to be replaced. (better for manufactures to sell stuff)

Guess I'll be racing with SCCA this year. Maybe next year I can afford to buy one and not try and go racing also. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The 5 year life span is only on the tethers.
The HANS from what I know has a 10 year life span.
If you buy the "extra" model, it's $895!

Yeah, that's no small chunk of change, but if you take that it's good for 10 years with the addition of an extra set of tethers for 40 bucks, your spending $93.50 a year, or, $7.80 per month (no interest ).

I really don't see that as being a lot of money to protect yourself from having your neck broken...

 

I was about to say, my neck is 100% worth it. I'll scrimp somewhere else, but not safety.

$895 isn't cheap (although HANS has a newer less expensive model out), but what is that? One race weekend or a little over one weekend?

 

How many deaths have we had in all of Road Racing in the last 10 years due to the lack of a H&N device. Perhaps we should allow racers to take the initiative.

I think this is just a way to get more people to buy a Hans device. SFI at work. Perhaps if SFI didn't have a conflict of interest I wouldn't be so pissed about this.

Of course maybe we just put the driver in the car and fill the car with safety foam. Much better solution. Maybe we just stop racing all together and buy really high end video game machines.

 

Why would you not want something that would make you safer (disregarding the HANS/Isaac debate)?

 

Don't get me wrong, I think having a H&N is a good idea and know it adds to the safety of racing cars. At the same point, I do not agree it should be manditory. Since this rule is not set in stone and to be made effective in the summer, it'll be interesting to see if it remains as-is.

I've been racing without a H&N for several years and was not uncomfortable doing so. It also adds another barrier to entry into our sport which I'm not so keen on. Should we now also require a H&N for HPDEs? Yeah, that would require belts but that makes particpating in these events safer. There needs to be a line drawn somewhere, people absolutely need to be educated on safety equipment, but I believe this goes a bit too far.

I'll keep the HANS / ISAAC debate out of this but will say that I recently purchased an ISAAC and will not be purchasing a HANS anytime soon.

(117, I'm not trying to be a jerk with my reply but am a bit annoyed right now with this new ruling.)

 

It's pretty interesting when you find out that there are other clubs that have instituted the H&N rule for 2008 as well. I'd expect the other clubs to start adding the requirement via supplements mid-season, or a requirement next season.

PCA:
4. After June 1, 2008, a head and neck restraint meeting either the standards of either SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 will be required.

BMWCCA requires SFI 38.1 for 2008

POC(Porche Owners Club) also requires a 38.1 for Feb '08(does this run on the PCA book?)

I wonder if people would be up in arms if it was SCCA that was requiring it this year as opposed to NASA?

People knew that it was coming sooner or later, it just sucks that the H&N item that has the best test data cannot be SFI 38.1 certified.


Modified by Austin at 10:15 AM 12/20/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder if people would be up in arms if it was SCCA that was requiring it this year as opposed to NASA?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes - look at improvedtouring.com .

 

Yeah I would be pissed if SCCA did it.

Back to my original argument, where do we draw the line? Why not require a full blown NASCAR style cage, rubber bumpers all around the cars and minimum of 10ft between cars? Racing is dangerous, we all accept that. Leave it up to me at some point.

 

No expiration on SFI 38.1 from SFI. That doesn't mean that a sanctioning body can't impose one but I don't think anyone has. If you take care of the HANS Device, it should practically last 10+ years. However, like helmets and harnesses, it could be a one time use piece of safety equipment. If you crash hard enough, it is possible that you will need a new one. The tethers should be replaced every two years or after a crash as a minimum.

We will start shipping the new Sport Series next month. It is $695 with standard tethers. The new sliding tether system (Vision Advantage Plus in marketing speak) should be available around mid-January. It will be available as an option on new devices and as an upgrade kit for devices in the field. The upgrade kit includes a new tether, carriers and a replacement nutwasher that replaces the existing nutwasher inside the helmet that you used to install the anchors. As far as the new sliding tethers, from our testing, there is no difference in performance.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance



Modified by hbennett76 at 7:05 PM 12/20/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many deaths have we had in all of Road Racing in the last 10 years due to the lack of a H&N device. Perhaps we should allow racers to take the initiative.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is almost impossible to know. Other than F1 and NASCAR, I don't think anyone have data that can support or substantiate it. One thing I know, after watching Kubica crash, that I won't get into a car without a Hans.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think this is just a way to get more people to buy a Hans device. SFI at work. Perhaps if SFI didn't have a conflict of interest I wouldn't be so pissed about this.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why is this a bad thing? two heads are better than one. Definitely, the more manufacturer with lots more resource are involve in safety is the better. Their goal is to make the safest and yet affordable car.

For instance, Team Caddillac did independent testing on the center net. They provide the data to SCCA pro racing, which in turn made it mandatory to run center net for pro racing. Why they don't make it mandatory for club racing is beyond me, as the cost of center net is minimal.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Of course maybe we just put the driver in the car and fill the car with safety foam. Much better solution. Maybe we just stop racing all together and buy really high end video game machines.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Seriously, you have the power to choose. You can choose to run or not based on inform decision. But you can't blame the sanctioning body to try to set a minimum standard. I won't be surprise if racing suit will have expiration date soon. Some of the racing suit I saw at the track probably won't do much good anymore, after covered with oil and other flamable materials.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think this is just a way to get more people to buy a Hans device. SFI at work. Perhaps if SFI didn't have a conflict of interest I wouldn't be so pissed about this.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Hutchens and R3 devices also meet the SFI spec. Where's the conflict of interest?





Modified by sidtc at 2:49 PM 12/20/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hbennett76 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No expiration on SFI 38.1 from SFI. That doesn't mean that a sanctioning body can't impose one but I don't there anyone has. If you take care of the HANS Device, it should practically last 10+ years. However, like helmets and harnesses, it could be a one time use piece of safety equipment. If you crash hard enough, it is possible that you will need a new one. The tethers should be replaced every two years or after a crash as a minimum.

We will start shipping the new Sport Series next month. It is $695 with standard tethers. The new sliding tether system (Vision Advantage Plus in marketing speak) should be available around mid-January. It will be available as an option on new devices and as an upgrade kit for devices in the field. The upgrade kit includes a new tether, carriers and a replacement nutwasher that replaces the existing nutwasher inside the helmet that you used to install the anchors. As far as the new sliding tethers, from our testing, there is no difference in performance.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds great thanks for the info Howard. I'm looking forward to trying the new tethers.

 

The conflict of interest comes from SFI. They get paid every time an item sanctioned SFI is sold, so if they can push a sanctioning body to shorten the replacement intervals for items like seat belts, helmets, etc, they make more money. If SFI was an independent research organization that did research and made recommendations independent of the manufactures dollars, then maybe they would have more credibility.

I don't have a problem with H&N devices. The data shows they work. I do however have a problem with people like HANS pushing for a mandate from racing organizations. It lets them sell more products, especially if the other manufactures can't meet the "standard" set in place by HANS and SFI.

I don't see this problem with FIA. Notice their seat belts only have to be replaced every 5 years? Why is that? Yet SFI belts require every 2 years. Airplanes don't require belt replacement this frequently.

Here's a scenario to think about. I am a cage manufacture. I join SFI and lobby to have all cages SFI certfied. SCCA, NASA, PCA, etc changes the rules to require an SFI certified cage. In order for a cage to meet the standards it has to be built by an SFI certified builder. Guess what I am a certified SFI builder, yet the guy next door is not. He can no longer build legal cages, until he pays membership into SFI.

Next we see plenty of builders wise up and join SFI. Cool, now lets say a couple of these builders are engineers. They get together and discuss the life span of a cage. After hashing out a plan they push SFI to put a life span on a cage. now you have to replace your cage every 8-10 years or worse maybe even 5-7. HHHHMMMM, well it all for your health and well being. SCCA is just looking out for your safety.

I don't have a problem with a sanctioning body recommending safety preparations. A cage, fire suit, harness, fire system, fuel cell, etc are all logical reasonable mandates, but a center net, HANS device, car full of safety foam, etc should not be mandated because manufactures can't sell them on the open market.

Maybe I will start selling a specially padded steering wheel that comes with plenty of scientific data to support its safety. But it can only be red. Nobody buys them, cuz they look at the data and don't see a need for it. But I will lobby to make it mandatory. Oh yeah it cost $1500. If you want to go racing better pony up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't have a problem with H&N devices. The data shows they work. I do however have a problem with people like HANS pushing for a mandate from racing organizations. It lets them sell more products, especially if the other manufactures can't meet the "standard" set in place by HANS and SFI.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry but you don't really know what you are talking about. First, the SFI 38.1 spec is not from HANS. Second, I guess we are better at building the HANS Device than we are at keeping the other manufacturers out. There are at least 2 other manufacturers building SFI certified devices with 5 or 6 others available. Third, this is not a conspiracy to make you buy a HANS Device. You can buy whatever you want.

In your scenario of the cage builders, yes, the other cage builder can join SFI but they still have to build a cage to a spec. Yes, a group of manufacturers/sanctioning bodies/safety engineers can get together to have the spec changed in some way. They still have to get it approved to change the spec.

I keep hearing how the SFI is this evil empire but most people don't know how it works. They listen to preconcieved misconceptions. Take SFI 38.1. NASCAR and others realized that something was needed, much like FIA. They developed a spec in association with other very knowledgeable people such as Dr. John Melvin. They submit their spec to SFI for adoption. SFI checks it out and accepts it. It was possible they could have rejected it and adopted something else. Manufacturers now have a standard they can build to. SFI confirms the data from testing. I know this because before we announced the Sport Series at PRI, SFI came to Delphi to monitor the testing. We were there watching but that was all. We had no input or control. SFI monitored the tests to confirm the device was within their specification. SFI can also buy a device on the open market and have it tested on their own. I don't know how often they do it but they have the capability. Also, not only manufacturers can join SFI, but sanctioning bodies and others can join also. If a member does not like a spec in any way, they can petition to have it changed. If they present a valid case, I assume it can be done.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

 

Whooooo hooooooooooooooooooooo
I bought mine a few months ago SFI 38.1 for me.
Kind of sucky that they are lowering the prices now. Thats almost a set of tires if you think about it the cost difference.
I paid just over 1k for mine.

 

I have never said SFI 38.1 is from HANS. It is the standard SFI came up with. The problem is NASA and other sanctioning bodies decided to mandate H&N devices. Why should they be mandated?

The nanny mentality is going to far. Racing is dangerous. Next thing you know you will be required to wave by for passing and no other cars will be allowed around you on track.

SFI is making money off of products mandated by sanctioning bodies. Makes you wonder what "new " widget will be approved for use by SFI for mandate by sanctioning organizations.