Engine Management...
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From: somewhere, WA, USA
Engine Management...
So I know that Hondata doesn't have anything for the FG2 other then a reflash...but I heard that AEM might have a "Stand Alone" engine management. Has anyone else heard this?
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: Engine Management... (Kentagious)
No standalone yet either.
AEM is making/selling a piggyback controller that works for our cars though. I don't know too much about it, but here's the link.
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCa...D=116
AEM is making/selling a piggyback controller that works for our cars though. I don't know too much about it, but here's the link.
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCa...D=116
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From: miserable mitten
Re: Engine Management... (Kentagious)
If you got rid of DBW, you could run a 1030 or 1070.
With DBW, you could wire in the AEM FIC, but it's not the same as having a EMS. I've been playing with a FIC on a twin turbo'd 06 Accord V6, so I know it can work with DBW cars, but you can't advance ignition timing with it so if you're staying NA, it's not going to help much. And if you're going to install yourself, study up on your cars sensors; crank(s), cam, mag., hall - you better understand it all.
Motec has had the capability of controlling DBW cars for several years, though, for liability reasons, they keep those features locked in their software. I'd look into a DBW to cable conversion, stand-alone management for DBW could still be a long way off.
With DBW, you could wire in the AEM FIC, but it's not the same as having a EMS. I've been playing with a FIC on a twin turbo'd 06 Accord V6, so I know it can work with DBW cars, but you can't advance ignition timing with it so if you're staying NA, it's not going to help much. And if you're going to install yourself, study up on your cars sensors; crank(s), cam, mag., hall - you better understand it all.
Motec has had the capability of controlling DBW cars for several years, though, for liability reasons, they keep those features locked in their software. I'd look into a DBW to cable conversion, stand-alone management for DBW could still be a long way off.
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From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Engine Management... (IT GUY)
Really?? How come there won't be a stand alone??
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Re: (Kentagious)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kentagious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if thats the case, how would you switch the DBW? And how much would it cost??</TD></TR></TABLE>
too much money to really be worth it.
you would have to convert the dbw system to a cable throttle, replace the ecu AND have some sort of speedometer put in as the digital speedometer would no longer work.
too much money to really be worth it.
you would have to convert the dbw system to a cable throttle, replace the ecu AND have some sort of speedometer put in as the digital speedometer would no longer work.
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From: northern, NJ, U.S
Re: (reaper702)
How come its such a hassle on Hondas? I believe scion tc's are dbw, and they have some stand alone ecu products.
There are companys like hydra ems that have made and released several stand alone EMS with DBW.
There are companys like hydra ems that have made and released several stand alone EMS with DBW.
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Re: (simply)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by simply »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How come its such a hassle on Hondas? I believe scion tc's are dbw, and they have some stand alone ecu products.
There are companys like hydra ems that have made and released several stand alone EMS with DBW.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time
There are companys like hydra ems that have made and released several stand alone EMS with DBW.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time
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Re: (reaper702)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reaper702 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not so much DBW as it is these cars having a MAF and a MAP sensor.
I have the AEM F/IC, PnP harness, among other parts in my posession now. Can't install/tune til it's warmer here, but it will work fine for my application hopefully.
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time
</TD></TR></TABLE>It's not so much DBW as it is these cars having a MAF and a MAP sensor.
I have the AEM F/IC, PnP harness, among other parts in my posession now. Can't install/tune til it's warmer here, but it will work fine for my application hopefully.
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: (COMplex.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reaper702 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by COMplex. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's not so much DBW as it is these cars having a MAF and a MAP sensor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
cars have been using MAF and MAP sensors together since the late 80's (mustangs since '89). there's no reason that should be an issue either.
I'm intersting in knowing how that F/IC is going to work out for you COMplex. I thought it was a pretty cool device, I'm glad someone here is going to try it out.
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From: miserable mitten
Re: (reaper702)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reaper702 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time </TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe another one of the issues is sales. If you're in the business of manufacturing aftermarket management systems - your primary demograph is racers (expet maybe for Hondata), and not too many racers have DBW cars. Plus, aftermarket management is technically illegal in street cars in an increasing number of states. So, how much would you invest to upgrade your software, hardware, firmware, etc., to accommodate the dozen or so really serious street guys who would actually buy your prodct?
With the execption of the liability issue, I can't explain Hondata's reluctance. Seems like they would be on top of this. And, I've only spoken with 1 soul who is running Hydra on their car, and I won't repeat their comments here. I've read about it, but have no personal experience with it.
yes DBW is not new so i have a feeling that is not the problem. there are various DBW cars and have engine management as well. there must be something else to it or maybe hondata is deciding to take their sweet time
</TD></TR></TABLE>I believe another one of the issues is sales. If you're in the business of manufacturing aftermarket management systems - your primary demograph is racers (expet maybe for Hondata), and not too many racers have DBW cars. Plus, aftermarket management is technically illegal in street cars in an increasing number of states. So, how much would you invest to upgrade your software, hardware, firmware, etc., to accommodate the dozen or so really serious street guys who would actually buy your prodct?
With the execption of the liability issue, I can't explain Hondata's reluctance. Seems like they would be on top of this. And, I've only spoken with 1 soul who is running Hydra on their car, and I won't repeat their comments here. I've read about it, but have no personal experience with it.
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Re: (scott@kinsler)
Thanks for your insight Scott. You've got some good points. 
it makes sense that Hondata wouldn't be investing much time / resources at developing something for what is essentially one model car that has been out all of 2 years. Hopefully as Honda continues to use the DBW technology and MAF/MAP combo on other models and the market will grow to the point that it needs to be at for parts development to become wothwhile for manufacturers.
then we can all run your kick *** ITBs.. lol
it makes sense that Hondata wouldn't be investing much time / resources at developing something for what is essentially one model car that has been out all of 2 years. Hopefully as Honda continues to use the DBW technology and MAF/MAP combo on other models and the market will grow to the point that it needs to be at for parts development to become wothwhile for manufacturers.
then we can all run your kick *** ITBs.. lol
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Re: (IT GUY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IT GUY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cars have been using MAF and MAP sensors together since the late 80's (mustangs since '89). there's no reason that should be an issue either.
I'm intersting in knowing how that F/IC is going to work out for you COMplex. I thought it was a pretty cool device, I'm glad someone here is going to try it out. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, I don't know what the issue is for hondata. They have the ability to tune themselves and create reflashes, but it is not in an end user form.
Really what it comes down to is being patient. It WILL come, it's just a matter of when exactly. I'm not patient, so I need to use the F/IC in the meantime.
cars have been using MAF and MAP sensors together since the late 80's (mustangs since '89). there's no reason that should be an issue either.
I'm intersting in knowing how that F/IC is going to work out for you COMplex. I thought it was a pretty cool device, I'm glad someone here is going to try it out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Well, I don't know what the issue is for hondata. They have the ability to tune themselves and create reflashes, but it is not in an end user form.
Really what it comes down to is being patient. It WILL come, it's just a matter of when exactly. I'm not patient, so I need to use the F/IC in the meantime.
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Re: (COMplex.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by COMplex. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, I don't know what the issue is for hondata. They have the ability to tune themselves and create reflashes, but it is not in an end user form.
Really what it comes down to is being patient. It WILL come, it's just a matter of when exactly. I'm not patient, so I need to use the F/IC in the meantime.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True. I would rather wait a while and have them develop it RIGHT....rather than rushing it and creating more problems.
Well, I don't know what the issue is for hondata. They have the ability to tune themselves and create reflashes, but it is not in an end user form.
Really what it comes down to is being patient. It WILL come, it's just a matter of when exactly. I'm not patient, so I need to use the F/IC in the meantime.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True. I would rather wait a while and have them develop it RIGHT....rather than rushing it and creating more problems.
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Re: (RICO_)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
True. I would rather wait a while and have them develop it RIGHT....rather than rushing it and creating more problems. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scott@kinsler »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe another one of the issues is sales. If you're in the business of manufacturing aftermarket management systems - your primary demograph is racers (expet maybe for Hondata), and not too many racers have DBW cars. Plus, aftermarket management is technically illegal in street cars in an increasing number of states. So, how much would you invest to upgrade your software, hardware, firmware, etc., to accommodate the dozen or so really serious street guys who would actually buy your prodct?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
why invest in something and not get any return on your investment? The market is still too small right now. I'd be interested to know how many reflashes they've actually sold. I'm sure that was much less expensive to develop.
True. I would rather wait a while and have them develop it RIGHT....rather than rushing it and creating more problems. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scott@kinsler »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe another one of the issues is sales. If you're in the business of manufacturing aftermarket management systems - your primary demograph is racers (expet maybe for Hondata), and not too many racers have DBW cars. Plus, aftermarket management is technically illegal in street cars in an increasing number of states. So, how much would you invest to upgrade your software, hardware, firmware, etc., to accommodate the dozen or so really serious street guys who would actually buy your prodct?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
why invest in something and not get any return on your investment? The market is still too small right now. I'd be interested to know how many reflashes they've actually sold. I'm sure that was much less expensive to develop.
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Re: (IT GUY)
It's not because of DBW or the MAF/MAP combo. It's the fact that this ECU is completely different than any other Honda from years past.
Hondata has said they will not release ANY information about the new tuning solutions for the Si, not even saying they are working on anything. I am certain Hondata is working on a tuning solution, but it won't be K-Pro like we've seen before (like on the RSX), it'll be something completely new.
It's been said before... patience! If you don't have any, go buy e-manage or something.
Hondata has said they will not release ANY information about the new tuning solutions for the Si, not even saying they are working on anything. I am certain Hondata is working on a tuning solution, but it won't be K-Pro like we've seen before (like on the RSX), it'll be something completely new.
It's been said before... patience! If you don't have any, go buy e-manage or something.
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Re: (kenny rogers)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kenny rogers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not because of DBW or the MAF/MAP combo. It's the fact that this ECU is completely different than any other Honda from years past.
Hondata has said they will not release ANY information about the new tuning solutions for the Si, not even saying they are working on anything. I am certain Hondata is working on a tuning solution, but it won't be K-Pro like we've seen before (like on the RSX), it'll be something completely new.
It's been said before... patience! If you don't have any, go buy e-manage or something.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you. someone has finally said it. end of story.
Mitsubishi's been using the MAF/MAP combo forever.
DBW is just a glorified TPS sensor.
just wait and start saving your duckets.
Hondata has said they will not release ANY information about the new tuning solutions for the Si, not even saying they are working on anything. I am certain Hondata is working on a tuning solution, but it won't be K-Pro like we've seen before (like on the RSX), it'll be something completely new.
It's been said before... patience! If you don't have any, go buy e-manage or something.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you. someone has finally said it. end of story.
Mitsubishi's been using the MAF/MAP combo forever.
DBW is just a glorified TPS sensor.
just wait and start saving your duckets.
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: (kenny rogers)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kenny rogers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not because of DBW or the MAF/MAP combo. It's the fact that this ECU is completely different than any other Honda from years past.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so the ecu is completely different than any other honda from years past, but the differences aren't because of the DBW and MAP/MAF combo? what else is different?
I'm not trying to be an ***, just trying to understand.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so the ecu is completely different than any other honda from years past, but the differences aren't because of the DBW and MAP/MAF combo? what else is different?
I'm not trying to be an ***, just trying to understand.
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^^exhaust note i hear ya on that. my buddy and i were building his and we maxed out the MAF sensor so i think he used a supra one inplace of it not to sure though. but the point is that you can tune the car it just has to be with e manage.
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Re: (IT GUY)
The architecture of the new ECU is a bit over my head in terms of technical data, but read up a little on this article from 8th...
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html
One thing I'm trying to learn more about is the CAN networking.
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html
One thing I'm trying to learn more about is the CAN networking.
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Re: (exhaust_note)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exhaust_note »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not a bad way to spend 10,000 dollars.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL...
LOL...
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Re: (kenny rogers)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kenny rogers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The architecture of the new ECU is a bit over my head in terms of technical data, but read up a little on this article from 8th...
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html
One thing I'm trying to learn more about is the CAN networking.</TD></TR></TABLE>
pretty neat article.
I've been researching CAN a little myself. It actually falls into my realm of understanding being that it's a networking protocol. It's actually really simple in theory, but I lack any experience at all in implementing CAN. So, I'm trying to learn as much as I can without having my hands on hardware. I had no idea this existed a week ago so it's pretty exciting to me right now... lol (yup, I'm a geek)
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html
One thing I'm trying to learn more about is the CAN networking.</TD></TR></TABLE>
pretty neat article.
I've been researching CAN a little myself. It actually falls into my realm of understanding being that it's a networking protocol. It's actually really simple in theory, but I lack any experience at all in implementing CAN. So, I'm trying to learn as much as I can without having my hands on hardware. I had no idea this existed a week ago so it's pretty exciting to me right now... lol (yup, I'm a geek)