Ok here is the deal... Me and a really good friend(he is very **** bout his stuff and does things right)... he has a k24 k20 in his rsx motor is stock and has about 7k on the motor... we drove it around na w/ kpro on the k pro map for his set up... when he was n/a motor compressed bad *** and what not and ran strong... he come across a good deal on a revhard kit... we then fabricated our own piping and bought a differnt front mount and we utilized a tial bov instead of the vortech one... and a tial wg... He told the tuner (guy is reputable... lot of exp.. on b series.) dont know about K series.. that he wanted a reliable car.... well on 15 lbs the car made 406 and the tuner said thats it will be reliable... keep in mind car was trailered to tuner..for initial start up... towed it home and unloaded the car.... we drove the car 200 miles got on it maybe 6 times 3 races on highway and a couple of pulls on the backroads car felt funny so i go home and do a compression check and here is the results 140 215 225 158 we tear it apart and it has cracked ring lands on 1 and 4... what would have caused this... i was told you need to run iridium plugs on this motor...they werent iridium... tuner suggested others... and also the CAM ANGLES were NOT tuned at all... tuner said there is no reason to tune the cam angles.... wtf is this ..true lets get some feed back thanks H-t.... this situation kinda pisses me off for the fact everything was done right on our behalf and this **** happens... i understand the risk of this sport but in reality should this of happened within 200 miles of install and tune

 

sounds like he should have come up here to you know who

 

this matts car?

 

maybe....lol....maybe not

 

lol...he wishes he did....now... either that or T4eg... now we dont know if we will be able to rebuild b/c of the Money issue

 

up up

 

Don't bump thread I'm pretty sure it isn't allowed here, and please use the quote button after you hit reply.

What fuel were you running when you were racing? Sounds like detonation happened. How about you post up pictures of 1/4 pistons.

 

excuse me for my ignorance but is cracked ring lands refer to the pistons or piston RIngs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16a4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">excuse me for my ignorance but is cracked ring lands refer to the pistons or piston RIngs? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The spacing between the piston rings = ring land.

 

What did the AF look like? Was it street tuned?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lsvtechatch92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and also the CAM ANGLES were NOT tuned at all... </TD></TR></TABLE>

That leaves alot of maps with a recipe for disaster. Unless he made the cam not move and stay on the maps he tuned, then there's trouble.

 

whoever tuned the car didnt know much about kpro or a k series motor. If he didnt tune each cam angle seperately thats your problem. Can you upload the .kal to a file and post it? I bet he only tuned the 50* map. Unless he tried tuning the car without locking the cams at a certain angle and tried to tune while the cam angles were jumping back and forth. Good luck.

 

up up up

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lsvtechatch92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">up up up</TD></TR></TABLE>


You know how to use Honda-Tech right ?

 

I need to see if I can find whatever kmanager version he used (it wasn't updated).

He simply told me he set the cam angles to "0". And locked them. He also said the car was running a LITTLE on the rich side. I will see what I can do to retrieve the .kal.

Thanx for the input guys!!!! Just trying to find out what went wrong in the set-up so I don't do it again.

I will post pictures of the pistons so people can see the actual damage. I'm kinda scared to post them after seeing Chris's pistons. LOL Its not that bad, it could have been much worse.

 

No, the car had NO street tuning at all. I was told it was reliable. I never told the tuner a power number. I just told him I needed it reliable because I was going to have to drive it for a while.

afr's were lower 11's and timing wasn't pushed at all (from what I was told). He said he tuned the car to 7200 but he set my redline to 8k. Doesn't that make sense? LOL He started with a N/A k20 map and the car was "done" in an hour and a half (some of which time we waited for someone to get us some gas).



Here is the dyno, Chris made fun of the afr's LOL

I'll be back on later tonight. Again thanx for the help guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Matticus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

afr's were lower 11's and timing wasn't pushed at all (from what I was told). He said he tuned the car to 7200 but he set my redline to 8k. Doesn't that make sense? LOL He started with a N/A k20 map and the car was "done" in an hour and a half (some of which time we waited for someone to get us some gas).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just curious, A/F looks good. but he didnt' chane any kind of timing from the n/a k20 map?!!? If, the tuner did not change the timing from n/a map... Im assuming thats why it blew

 

Do you have a timing map of any sorts you can post?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95exdsmkilla &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just curious, A/F looks good. but he didnt' chane any kind of timing from the n/a k20 map?!!? If, the tuner did not change the timing from n/a map... Im assuming thats why it blew</TD></TR></TABLE>

the timing was pulled to "conservative" level coming from the owner on the phone with me.

 

everytime i say something, rumors happen, im just gonna keep my mouth shut if you know what i mean matt

i just hope your new setup is killer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Matticus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, the car had NO street tuning at all. I was told it was reliable. I never told the tuner a power number. I just told him I needed it reliable because I was going to have to drive it for a while.

afr's were lower 11's and timing wasn't pushed at all (from what I was told). He said he tuned the car to 7200 but he set my redline to 8k. Doesn't that make sense? LOL He started with a N/A k20 map and the car was "done" in an hour and a half (some of which time we waited for someone to get us some gas).



Here is the dyno, Chris made fun of the afr's LOL

I'll be back on later tonight. Again thanx for the help guys. </TD></TR></TABLE>

there s no need to run it that rich
timing is what breaks motors

look at the tq numbers
timing is high

 

Post the .kal file. I bet if he had the cam angle locked at 0 then there was a lot more power that could have been pulled out of the motor as well.

 

I've been running a million miles an hour today. I'm not at my house right now or I would try and pull the .kal as soon as I get home tomorrow I will do my best to post it.

I was wondering if the cam angles would have been tuned and the car was able to hit similar numbers on less boost if that would have been any better and possibly saved the life of the pistons.


Sir2egk - You can say whatever you feel. Rumors aren't starting from me. I'm just trying to find out what happened so I can fix the mistake. If it was something in my set-up, something I did or maybe something else. I just don't want there to be a repeat if you know what I mean.

 

What the pistons look like will tell you alot about the tune. If there were no detonation present on the pistons then the tune was "safe". Pictures of the pistons would be very helpful to further determine the possible cause of failure.

Also, your emphasis on the failure happening within 200 miles does not say much if anything at all. 200 miles of granny driving or 200 miles of hard racing?

I do not know much about K-series, but from exprience with B/H series, the ringlands are like glass. I wouldn't be surprised if the K-series ringlands are the same way.

 

The funny thing is, when we became Hondata dealers, I took it upon myself to familiarize myself with the software.

The HELP menu (no matter how many cars you're tuned, read them on a new system) suggests running the full 50* of advance on an NA motor only. Turbo and SC are MUCH lower (25* or so).

The other thing I noticed: With AFR's so rich in the bottom end, there is a chance that you were loading the piston with unburned fuel, and when the spark was finally being lit, that unburned fuel can and will ignite down in the ring gaps. It's rare, but we've seen it happen on cars before. The coil on plug is much better than the B series ignitions, but there is still a limit as to how much fuel one can light up with stock components. Also, what was the plug gap like?

11.5 is a pretty safe bet for keeping a motor cool, but it really boils down to timing (both cam angle and advance) and fuel quality. I'd love to see your cal file too.