I'm At Wits End w/ My Car....
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From: SC
I'm At Wits End w/ My Car....
Hi all, for the past 5 months my 99' Hatch has been producing a horrible vibration from the front that just gets worse and worse as the speed increases to the point that I don't feel safe to drive it over 60 mph.
The past 2 months or so I have been trying to solve this, but after checking and re-checking, new axles, new tires mounted and balanced, etc.... Nothing has even come close to curing the vibration, which sounds like one of my wheels aren't fully seated on the knuckle.
Last week, before i ordered new tires, I switched front wheels with a buddy of mine who has some steelies and as I was putting these on my car I noticed that my open end lugnuts weren't threading onto the stud enough hold the wheel on tight enough, so I found the first problem. Using his stock lugnuts, I finished putting his steelies on my car and to my amazement, problem SOLVED! I thought great, my tires must be bad since I have no visible bends in my SI's. So I ordered new tires, got them mounted and balanced, and still same crappy vibration.
Now I just don't want to mess with it anymore, and I have grown to hate my car because I know how to fix the damn thing but I can't figure out what the hell is wrong.
So enough with the sob story, here's the rundown:
-Wheel bearings have no play in them whatsoever
-The wheels do have some play in them when I pull them left to right, not like
they're not seated but like the tie rods have some play
-Both axles are brand new
-My passenger side lower ball joint dust boot is ripped as of like 8k miles ago.
-Stock '99 Si wheels with brand spankin new tires mounted and balanced
-Alignment done about a week ago
Is there anything that I should be looking for and may have not thought of?
The past 2 months or so I have been trying to solve this, but after checking and re-checking, new axles, new tires mounted and balanced, etc.... Nothing has even come close to curing the vibration, which sounds like one of my wheels aren't fully seated on the knuckle.
Last week, before i ordered new tires, I switched front wheels with a buddy of mine who has some steelies and as I was putting these on my car I noticed that my open end lugnuts weren't threading onto the stud enough hold the wheel on tight enough, so I found the first problem. Using his stock lugnuts, I finished putting his steelies on my car and to my amazement, problem SOLVED! I thought great, my tires must be bad since I have no visible bends in my SI's. So I ordered new tires, got them mounted and balanced, and still same crappy vibration.
Now I just don't want to mess with it anymore, and I have grown to hate my car because I know how to fix the damn thing but I can't figure out what the hell is wrong.
So enough with the sob story, here's the rundown:
-Wheel bearings have no play in them whatsoever
-The wheels do have some play in them when I pull them left to right, not like
they're not seated but like the tie rods have some play
-Both axles are brand new
-My passenger side lower ball joint dust boot is ripped as of like 8k miles ago.
-Stock '99 Si wheels with brand spankin new tires mounted and balanced
-Alignment done about a week ago
Is there anything that I should be looking for and may have not thought of?
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From: SC
Re: I'm At Wits End w/ My Car.... (crexer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crexer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what did the professionals say at the alignment shop?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know if you can call those guys "professionals", but other than telling me that my tires were bald (there was still about 50% on them) and that I had a leaking oil pan, which they quoted me to fix, they really didn't say anything other than that the car aligned within factory specs. Seemed as though they were concerned more with selling me more, like tires and oil pan gasket, than anything. I didn't even hear anything from them about the lower ball joint boot bein ripped....
I don't know if you can call those guys "professionals", but other than telling me that my tires were bald (there was still about 50% on them) and that I had a leaking oil pan, which they quoted me to fix, they really didn't say anything other than that the car aligned within factory specs. Seemed as though they were concerned more with selling me more, like tires and oil pan gasket, than anything. I didn't even hear anything from them about the lower ball joint boot bein ripped....
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From: I am Tyson
Re: I'm At Wits End w/ My Car.... (97ShLude)
siezed caliper seems to be of issue to some ppl with vibration issues.
but what do you mean the wheels have play but the wheel bearing doesnt...
unless your wheel isnt fully tightened, any play in the wheel is an indication of play in the wheel bearing.
but what do you mean the wheels have play but the wheel bearing doesnt...
unless your wheel isnt fully tightened, any play in the wheel is an indication of play in the wheel bearing.
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From: SC
Re: I'm At Wits End w/ My Car.... (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">siezed caliper seems to be of issue to some ppl with vibration issues.
but what do you mean the wheels have play but the wheel bearing doesnt...
unless your wheel isnt fully tightened, any play in the wheel is an indication of play in the wheel bearing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry I guess I wasn't being clear enough, the play that I was talking about was when I grab the wheel and move it left to right it feels as though there is some play in the steering rack, not in the knuckle.
After some more searching I came across a thread that crexer started about differential bearings and some of the symptoms described in that thread seem to describe most, if not all, of my drivetrain symptoms.
The noise coming from the front of the car sounds like an unbalanced wheel or a wheel that is not properly seated (both of which are def. not the case) but there is little to no vibration in the steering wheel, which leads me to believe its either tranny or axles (although axles are new)
but what do you mean the wheels have play but the wheel bearing doesnt...
unless your wheel isnt fully tightened, any play in the wheel is an indication of play in the wheel bearing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry I guess I wasn't being clear enough, the play that I was talking about was when I grab the wheel and move it left to right it feels as though there is some play in the steering rack, not in the knuckle.
After some more searching I came across a thread that crexer started about differential bearings and some of the symptoms described in that thread seem to describe most, if not all, of my drivetrain symptoms.
The noise coming from the front of the car sounds like an unbalanced wheel or a wheel that is not properly seated (both of which are def. not the case) but there is little to no vibration in the steering wheel, which leads me to believe its either tranny or axles (although axles are new)
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From: Altoona, pa, usa y0
Re: (NH538DB8)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NH538DB8 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you sure that the lug nuts your using are appropriate for the wheels your using? It sounds like they aren't. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree.
check your wheels vs the self centeric lugnut. If the lugnut isnt able to make the wheel center itself it will cause vibration. Very unlikley but the wheel may acually be doing it. When a tireshop balances a wheen they balance it from the hole in the middle of the wheel not the lugs. Switching the 2 front wheels to the back would check this problem.
Its more then likley the lugnuts.
It doesnt make sence that the tranny could be bad if the steelies fixed it.
I agree.
check your wheels vs the self centeric lugnut. If the lugnut isnt able to make the wheel center itself it will cause vibration. Very unlikley but the wheel may acually be doing it. When a tireshop balances a wheen they balance it from the hole in the middle of the wheel not the lugs. Switching the 2 front wheels to the back would check this problem.
Its more then likley the lugnuts.
It doesnt make sence that the tranny could be bad if the steelies fixed it.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 29,994
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: (spun Vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spun Vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I agree.
check your wheels vs the self centeric lugnut. If the lugnut isnt able to make the wheel center itself it will cause vibration. Very unlikley but the wheel may acually be doing it. When a tireshop balances a wheen they balance it from the hole in the middle of the wheel not the lugs. Switching the 2 front wheels to the back would check this problem.
Its more then likley the lugnuts.
It doesnt make sence that the tranny could be bad if the steelies fixed it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds like you're talking about lug-centric wheels. All Honda wheels are hub-centric. A stock wheel should match its center hub bore exactly with the diameter of the hub in the center of the brake. So the wheel should be exactly centered before you even start putting lug nuts on the car.
As for axles, what brand were these and were they really brand new or were they remanufactured? When I replaced my old OEM axles, I had no vibration. The rebuilt ones I put on vibrated like mad, and I ended up going through 3 sets of rebuilt's before I finally got a set that didn't vibrate.
I agree.
check your wheels vs the self centeric lugnut. If the lugnut isnt able to make the wheel center itself it will cause vibration. Very unlikley but the wheel may acually be doing it. When a tireshop balances a wheen they balance it from the hole in the middle of the wheel not the lugs. Switching the 2 front wheels to the back would check this problem.
Its more then likley the lugnuts.
It doesnt make sence that the tranny could be bad if the steelies fixed it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds like you're talking about lug-centric wheels. All Honda wheels are hub-centric. A stock wheel should match its center hub bore exactly with the diameter of the hub in the center of the brake. So the wheel should be exactly centered before you even start putting lug nuts on the car.
As for axles, what brand were these and were they really brand new or were they remanufactured? When I replaced my old OEM axles, I had no vibration. The rebuilt ones I put on vibrated like mad, and I ended up going through 3 sets of rebuilt's before I finally got a set that didn't vibrate.
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Re: (PatrickGSR94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sounds like you're talking about lug-centric wheels. All Honda wheels are hub-centric. A stock wheel should match its center hub bore exactly with the diameter of the hub in the center of the brake. So the wheel should be exactly centered before you even start putting lug nuts on the car.
As for axles, what brand were these and were they really brand new or were they remanufactured? When I replaced my old OEM axles, I had no vibration. The rebuilt ones I put on vibrated like mad, and I ended up going through 3 sets of rebuilt's before I finally got a set that didn't vibrate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it were axles then i cannot see how changing the rims would solve the problem. And even then changing the rims did not solve the problem. Changing the rims and lugnuts did. I would say that your wheel studs could have some damaged threads preventing the lug from being completely tightened even though it might be to the proper torque spec. We know the OP is using aftermarket lug nuts. its possible that they are a different thread or defective and that wouldn't allow them to tighten down all the way. If you don't have extended wheel studs there is no need for the open ended lugs and I would just buy a full set of oem style lugs and throw those on. If that fixes the problem then you know the lug nuts were bad. I still think that they aren't seating all the way down onto the rim, it may feel like they are and look like they are but when the stress and weight of the vehicle is sitting on the rims there may be enough play to cause the problems your describing. Either way the symptoms all are descriptive of loose lug nuts. I would focus my attention there. By the way, if the lug nuts are loose then it is incredibly dangerous for you to be driving that car. Wheels do come off cars and put both the driver and the people around him/her in incredible danger. Don't take the risk.
Sounds like you're talking about lug-centric wheels. All Honda wheels are hub-centric. A stock wheel should match its center hub bore exactly with the diameter of the hub in the center of the brake. So the wheel should be exactly centered before you even start putting lug nuts on the car.
As for axles, what brand were these and were they really brand new or were they remanufactured? When I replaced my old OEM axles, I had no vibration. The rebuilt ones I put on vibrated like mad, and I ended up going through 3 sets of rebuilt's before I finally got a set that didn't vibrate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it were axles then i cannot see how changing the rims would solve the problem. And even then changing the rims did not solve the problem. Changing the rims and lugnuts did. I would say that your wheel studs could have some damaged threads preventing the lug from being completely tightened even though it might be to the proper torque spec. We know the OP is using aftermarket lug nuts. its possible that they are a different thread or defective and that wouldn't allow them to tighten down all the way. If you don't have extended wheel studs there is no need for the open ended lugs and I would just buy a full set of oem style lugs and throw those on. If that fixes the problem then you know the lug nuts were bad. I still think that they aren't seating all the way down onto the rim, it may feel like they are and look like they are but when the stress and weight of the vehicle is sitting on the rims there may be enough play to cause the problems your describing. Either way the symptoms all are descriptive of loose lug nuts. I would focus my attention there. By the way, if the lug nuts are loose then it is incredibly dangerous for you to be driving that car. Wheels do come off cars and put both the driver and the people around him/her in incredible danger. Don't take the risk.
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
I didn't know these were aftermarket lug nuts. You should never EVER use aftermarket lug nuts with stock wheels, or vice versa stock lug nuts with aftermarket wheels.
First thing that needs to happen is that OEM (or similar with ball-shaped seat) lug nuts need to be used with the OP's OEM Si wheels to see if that has any effect on the problem.
First thing that needs to happen is that OEM (or similar with ball-shaped seat) lug nuts need to be used with the OP's OEM Si wheels to see if that has any effect on the problem.
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