i searched and most questions were aout scca/soloII classification, and NASA's little web classifier is down for an update so i figured you guys could help me out.

i originally built my car to be a good street car, with good handling and an ls/vtec with about 200 n/a whp using ITB's to get the throttle response i wanted.

now my issue is i did a factory driving school that we got a trip to when my mom bought a new car, and i got bit by the racing bug. my only problem is i think that my car is going to put me in way too high a class to even be competitive, and i dont want to build a whole new car.

the car will suffice if i stick to just HPDE's obviously but id like to go further this summer.

so my question is, where would my car class me?

overview - 1.8L ls/vtec with stock honda pistons/rods, head has upgraded valve springs and cams, and then the itb's. header is a factory type r piece. suspension is full coilovers and an EM1 swaybar setup. 2.3 inch exhaust header back, full interior, no weight reduction of any sort. rear disk brake cnversion, hawk pads all arouns and ss lines.

thanks for your help!

 

You could spend your entire "career" in NASA driving HPDE's, guys do it all the time. You could step up to Time Trials, or do wheel-to-wheel in Performance Touring.

http://www.performancetouring.com/

Classifications for PT in the middle of the page. IIRC PT uses Time Trial's points-based system to class your car, so figuring out your PT class also gets you your TT class.

 

You'll have to get a certified dynojet dyno, and weight. It will take sometime to get your TT license anyway. Just sign up for some NASA HPDE's, have fun, and start down the road. See the link below for TT engine swaps. If the engine was internally stock, some swaps are already 'pre-approved'. HP to WT makes it fair for you.

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=12638


pre approved TT engine swaps:

Appendix A—Approved Engine Swaps

Acura Integra B18C1 (GSR 170 hp) swapped into a Honda Civic (2300#). The swap will result in the
Civic moving up to the TTD base class with a curb weight listing of 2300 lbs.

Acura Integra B18C5 (ITR 195 hp) swapped into a Honda Civic (2300 lb). The swap will result in the
Civic moving up to the TTC base class with a curb weight listing of 2300 lbs.

Acura Integra Type R (JDM 220hp) swapped into an Acura Integra RSX Type S (US). The swap will
result in the RSX Type S moving up to the TTD* base class with a curb weight listing of 2770 lbs.

Audi 80 2.0L (108/113hp) swapped into an '81 VW Scirocco 1.7L (74hp) body. The swap will result in
the Scirocco moving up to the TTF** class, with a curb weight of 2040 lbs.

BMW E36 325i 2.5L (189hp) swapped into a BMW E30 325i (2855#). The swap will result in the E30
moving up to the TTE* base class with a curb weight listing of 2855 lbs.

BMW E36 328 2.8L (190 hp) swapped into BMW E36 318ti (2778 lbs). The swap will result in the E36
318ti moving up to the TTE* base class with a curb weight listing of 2778 lbs.

Eagle Talon turbo 2.0L 16v (210 hp) swapped into an Eagle Talon non-turbo 2.0L (4g63) chassis/body of
equal weight. The swap will result in the car moving to the Eagle Talon Turbo's base class of TTE with a
curb weight listing of 2889 lbs.

Ford Escort LX SPI 2.0L SOHC (110 hp) swapped into '91-'96 Ford Escort LX. The swap will result in
the Escort LX Hatchback moving to the TTG** base class with a curb weight listing of 2391 lbs. and the
Escort LX Wagon moving to the TTG* base class with a curb weight listing of 2484 lbs.

Ford Escort ZX2 Zetec 2.0l VVT (130hp) swapped into '91-'96 Ford Escort LX. The swap will result in
the Escort LX (hatchback and wagon) moving to the TTF* base class with a curb weight listing of 2391
lbs

Ford Mustang ’69 351W (290 bhp, 232 net hp)(TTF*) swapped into a '66 Ford Mustang 289W (271 bhp,
217 net hp)(TTF*). The swap will result in an increase in the '66 Mustang's listed curb weight by 210 lbs
to 3190 lbs if the alternate method of weight reduction mod points is used. If not, a +11 point assessment
will be made.

Mazda 323 GTX ('90-'94) BP-T 1.8L (176 hp) swapped into '91-'96 Ford Escort LX. The swap will result
in the Escort LX (hatchback and wagon) moving to the TTD base class with a curb weight listing of 2391
lbs.

Mazda 626 KLZE 2.5L (JDM 200hp) swapped into '91-'96 Ford Escort LX. The swap will
result in the
Escort LX Hatchback moving to the TTC base class with a curb weight listing of 2391 lbs. and the Escort
LX Wagon moving to the TTD** base class with a curb weight listing of 2484 lbs.

Mazda Miata '94-‘97 1.8L (128 hp), using the 1.6L ECU, swapped into '90-‘93 Mazda Miata 1.6L
(116hp) body. The swap will result in the ’90-‘93 Miata moving to the TTE base class, with a curb weight
listing of 2275 lbs. As well, the ’90-’93 Miata may update other non-ECU parts from the ’94-’97 Miata.

Nissan CA18DET (175hp) swapped into an '89-'94 Nissan 240SX (140hp). The swap will result in the
Nissan 240SX moving to the TTE base class, with a curb weight listing of 2700 lbs.

Nissan (JDM) S13 SR20DET (200hp) swapped into a Nissan 240SX (155hp) body (TTF**). The swap
will result in the Nissan 240SX moving to the TTD base class, with a curb weight of 2700 lbs.

Nissan (JDM) SR20VE (187hp, 145ft-lbs) ('97-'01 auto) swapped into a Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V (175
hp,180 ft-lbs, 2.5L, TTF**)--does not include SR20VE from '01-current 6sp manual (204hp). The swap
will result in the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V moving up to the TTE base class, with a curb weight listing
of 2740 lbs.


Nissan (JDM or USA) VG30DETT (300ZXTT) (300hp) engine swapped into a Nissan 300ZX Z-32 2+2
(n.a)(3414 lb) (222hp) body. The swap will result in the Nissan 300ZX Z-32 2+2 (n.a) moving up to the
TTD** base class, with a listed curb weight of 3480 lbs. This swap does not apply to the 300ZX Coupe
(3219 lbs).

Pontiac Firebird 3.4L V6 (160hp) swapped into an '88 Fiero 2.8L (140hp). The swap will result in the
Fiero moving from TTF* to TTE with a listed curb weight of 2778 lbs.

Pontiac Grand Am '99 3.4L V6 (175hp) swapped into an '88 Pontiac Fiero (4 cylinder). The swap will
result in the Fiero moving to the TTE* base class (from TTG), with a curb weight listing of 2590 lbs.

VW Jetta 2.0L 16V (134hp) ('90) swapped into a '78 VW Scirocco 1.6L (75hp) body. The swap will
result in the Scirocco moving up to TTE* (from TTH**) with a curb weight listing of 2040 lbs.

VW Scirocco 2.0L 8v (ABA) (115hp) swapped into an '80 VW Scirocco 1.7L (74hp) body. The swap will
result in the Scirocco moving up to the TTF** base class (from TTH**), with a curb weight listing of
2040 lbs.

VW Scirocco 1.8 L 8v (90hp) swapped into an '81 VW Scirocco 1.7L (74 hp) body. The swap will result
in the Scirocco moving up to the TTG** base class (from TTH**), with a curb weight listing of 2040 lbs.



Modified by loudes13 at 12:59 PM 12/16/2007

 

thanks for all that guys, i hadnt run across info on the performance touring. im just really trying to get into the racing this summer with the new NJ track opening.

ill go throgh that sheet in the next few days and report back.

any other tips or tricks for me?

 

the more stock the car is = the cheaper the class obviously

the more stock = slower the class = better for newbs

those ITBs might throw you in a class where you will still be out gunned HP/Weight.. . Most hondas that are not fully prepped usually are anyways.. .

H1 preped Civic and Tegs usually run NASA TTA or TTB which are both really fast classes. If you get pigeon holed there, your 200whp is very underpowered there.

Quickest way to TT competition:
1.) throw yourself to the wolves in a Redline Time attack!

2.) If you plan on running NASA Time Trials, run NASA HPDES
if you plan on running SCCA "........................................."

reason, accrediting time and efforts is easier for the clubs to acknowledge

3.) the best way.. . Run some HPDEs, finalize the prep on your car for the class you want to run, sign up for a comp school or two, get your license and what not, do some more HPDEs. It's going to take you more than a year though unless you go all out next season and do like 10 events or more and have the bling for it all!


GL

 

You can be competitive in TTA-TTB.
The fastest HC cars in my region (Norcal, very competitive) are faster than the TTA and TTB cars for the most part. Nationally it's another story. Remember at 200+WHP you can weigh 2100 Pounds car and driver and run TTA. that's an excellent power to weight ratio. you can run a Kaaz LSD, as well as the stickiest tires you want...and still run TTA. It's all about how you prepare the car for the class. I'll be running TTA in my CRX at 2240 pounds with driver at 220 WHP, and I will be ok.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hagakure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can be competitive in TTA-TTB.
The fastest HC cars in my region (Norcal, very competitive) are faster than the TTA and TTB cars for the most part. Nationally it's another story. Remember at 200+WHP you can weigh 2100 Pounds car and driver and run TTA. that's an excellent power to weight ratio. you can run a Kaaz LSD, as well as the stickiest tires you want...and still run TTA. It's all about how you prepare the car for the class. I'll be running TTA in my CRX at 2240 pounds with driver at 220 WHP, and I will be ok.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well yes, this is true but look at the K24 cars runnin-a-muck.. . . regions will very for sure. . Good luck to you

i don't think gunnin for H1 nationals level of prep is the best thing to do right from the start.. . It's expensive and this guy doesn't even have a cage listed as one of his mods.. .

A good questions to ask yourself killerpenguin21
1.) How many resources do you have available? tow and truck, building of car and race setup
2.) how much money do you have to spend on prep of car: cage, suspension, safety.. .
3.) "................................................. ......" on racing per year, tires, fees, gas, brakages and maintenance

You need to align your goals with your finances. Not the other way around. Unfortunetely this hobby we like is one of the most expensive ones out there. Having a Honda makes it cheaper, but that still doesn't mean it's cheap.

 

yeah the cost is why id like to stick with what i have and maybe make a few changes to get in a competitive class. i did 1 hpde last season, should get atleast 5 this season, and possibly go for my license the end of the summer.

i do all my work myself, so i have all the resources for work and rebuilding and stuff. the prep is up in the air pending where i wind up initially classified, since id like to be best ready for one single class i would think

cage/seat hasnt been mentioned for the same reason...waiting to see what is required per the class i wind up in. i would also like to stick to something i dont need to trailer the car for, would rather drive their and hope i can drive home

thanks for all the help guys. swamped with finals this week, but should get around to the classification worksheet this weekend.

 

6 HPDE's is not enough seat time to be thinking about a license. In Norcal you would be hard pressed to be let into group 3. Take your time and get the experience you need to be safe first, fast later.

 

Yep, you need at least 4 incident-free weekends of HPDE3 (i.e. passing in corners) to be considered for a TT license check ride...

It could be done by summer '08, but you'd be going to a LOT of events

Jon

 

You guys let them go stright to TT from Group 3? In norcal it takes several weekends of group 4 to go to TT...

 

4 in Mid-Atl is the instructor-only group. 3 is the Advanced/non-instructed/passing-in-corners group. After 4+ weekends in 3 (more is better), they can be ok'd for a TT license check ride, admission into an instructor clinic, or entry in a comp licensing school. TT check ride does not equal TT license, plenty of people don't make the cut. But if they pass, they get a provisional TT license and must complete at least 1 TT weekend without issues before getting the full license.

The only people who automatically qualify for TT licenses are instructors and racers...

Jon

 

Penguin, your best bet for becoming a better driver and getting yourself into a reasonable class is to swap out that engine for something stock. I'd honestly suggest an LS motor, due to cheapness and simplicity. While you might be frowning to that drop in power, go for a ride with an H4 racer.

 

If you only have enough resource/money to drive you car to the track and do only 5 events a year, you don't have what it takes to race.. . YET!

Sorry to say, but don't expect a license next year with only 5 HPDES. But what you should do is make it a goal to get at TT permit and learn as much as you can. I have had a hell of a good time improving my skills. In 2006-7 I was in the same boat as you were WANTING to race. Being that my finances couldn't keep up with my lifestyle and my need to buy a house, racing is on the backburner now. I'm trying to sell my Honda now for something that is more of a DD and a trackable car.. . If it doesn't sell for what I think it deserves, I'll rock it next year too without shame.. . Hopefully 2009 brings stability for TT or Door to Door racing!

GL with the build and what not

 

oh ill take the drop in power, just sucks im unemployed right now (thats a whole nother story) i usually make good money and could pick up an ls long block easily.

im not opposed to taking longer i know its all about how the progression goes, the instructor was impressed last time because i knew the limits of my car quite well, and said in 5 or so i could be going on a tt permit ride.

i was only running my d series then tho.

ill see what happens thanks guys!

 

So how many events have you done, and with what groups?

 

ive done auto-x, not sure how many its been on and off for 2 years.

one manufacturer 3 day school.

one HPDE in group 2 on the second day.