i want to replace my engine sometime next year but not sure wich one to get.
i have an 88 honda civic dx hatchback non si.
i currently have a 1.5 and 4 speed tranny.
i dont want to change wire harnes or motor mounts thats why.
so d16 or zc dohc?
they both can use the wire harness and mounts right? thanks

 

Potentially, the DOHC ZC should make more horsepower, but only if you can throw more money at it.

The D16A6 will make more hp-per-$ you spend on it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Potentially, the DOHC ZC should make more horsepower, but only if you can throw more money at it.

The D16A6 will make more hp-per-$ you spend on it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Word. I'm planning on buying a SOHC ZC and building that for fun. I have a DOHC ZC and althought factory specs the DOHC ZC makes more money there aftermarket support is slightly more expensive and there are way too many 'one of' parts for the DOHC ZC. I guess that's what you get for building an engine that wasn't offered in North America.

 

There was a thread only recently that compared the two fairly thoroughly.

 

Stock?

The DOHC ZC for sure. There is also a noticeable increase in torque.

And while it is agreed that your building potential is greater with teh SOHC because parts are plentiful, the DOHC will give you more bang for the buck out of the box.

 

so the zc dohc? and it does fit the stock mounts and harnes and computer right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 818blue818 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the zc dohc? and it does fit the stock mounts and harnes and computer right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no you will have to wire for MPFI and change the ECU as well but the mounts will work

 

to what ecu? and does the wire harness have to be replaced with another or just change a few wires?

 

I dont know but if you search for DOHC ZC in the search you will probably find the answer

 

best ECU is the JDM PM7 - you can use the 88-89 Integra PG7 also - works about the same as PM7 - just use the DX engine harness and make the DPFI to MPFI wiring changes for the injectors, which basically is adding 2 wires from the ECU and adding a resistor box - add 2 wires for the Cylinder sensor and that is it - the DX harness plugs right into everything on the ZC, even the distributor

 

and it would last me a long while right? it wont burn out on me really fast? is it the stock ecu for that engine? sorry for all the questions but if i dont ask ill never know n learn but thanks to all

 

stock ECU for the DOHC ZC is the PM7 - it won't burn out, no matter which one you use

 

wat year can u get one off? and by n e chance they dont sell new or fixed computers? i kinda wouldnt wanna take a chance on going to the junk yard and getting on that dont work u know lol

 

you can't get a PM7 from a junk yard here in the USA unless someone did the swap and then their car got junked

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 818blue818 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wat year can u get one off? and by n e chance they dont sell new or fixed computers? i kinda wouldnt wanna take a chance on going to the junk yard and getting on that dont work u know lol</TD></TR></TABLE>you can't get a PM7 from any American car - they are Japan only - if you want a PM7, you will need to get it with the engine, which you need to get from an engine importer, however, most of the importers won't sell you just an engine and ECU - you would need to get a complete swap - you can sometimes find PM7s on Ebay - you can go to the junkyard and get a PG7 from the 88 or 89 (not 86-87) Integra with manual transmission - ECUs don't go bad that often and if you find one in the junkyard, 999 times out of a thousand, it will be good

 

so to summarize the zc dohc has more stock power than the 1.6.
i can use the 1.6 and leave everything the same right?
and if i get the zc dohc i have to modify the dpfi to mpfi change the computer to a pg7 or 88-89 integra. it also fits the mounts but im still curious how would i be able to get the cable and how easy is it to install? thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 818blue818 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so to summarize the zc dohc has more stock power than the 1.6.
i can use the 1.6 and leave everything the same right?
and if i get the zc dohc i have to modify the dpfi to mpfi change the computer to a pg7 or 88-89 integra. it also fits the mounts but im still curious how would i be able to get the cable and how easy is it to install? thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>the DOHC ZC has advertised horsepower of 128 and the D16A6 Si engine has advertised horsepower of 108 - any D16 engine that you swap into it will require the DPFI to MPFI wiring changes - what cable do you mean?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 818blue818 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so to summarize the zc dohc has more stock power than the 1.6.
i can use the 1.6 and leave everything the same right?
and if i get the zc dohc i have to modify the dpfi to mpfi change the computer to a pg7 or 88-89 integra. it also fits the mounts but im still curious how would i be able to get the cable and how easy is it to install? thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

no a DOHC ZC is a 1.6L as well as a D16a6 and they are both MPFI. which ever motor you change to most likely you will have to change from DPFI to MPFI

 

i get what you guys are saying but since i havent done it before it seems a little bit confusing and a little complicated. so regardless if i change from dpfi to mpfi i still have to re wire? or just rewire under the hood for 2 plugs or so right? but if ui put the zc in i have to rewire to the computer and so on whats the best advice from you guys just get it done at the shop or ??

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1508680 &lt;---had you read this. Might help lots of pictures and write ups.

 

Regardless you'll have to do the MPFI conversion.

Another thing that no one has mentioned in this thread is the transmission. The correct/specific transmission to the DOHC ZC uses an intermediate shaft and different axles. If you want to use this (if you get it anyways) you'd actually need to swap your front wheel hubs because of spline count difference. If you want to avoid this, you can get use an Si tranny (or use your stock 4 spd but you won't realize the full potential of that motor with such long gears) and reuse your 4 spd axles.

My personal thoughts between the two motors...

They are nearly the same difference. One has an extra camshaft and more hp/tq out of the box. You wanna know what that means? You can tune the intake and exhaust cam independantly from one another on a DOHC ZC. Other than that, it's the same thing. You wanna make a D16(XX) motor faster than a DOHC ZC? You can. You wanna make a DOHC ZC motor faster than a D16(XX)? You can. It really comes down to money. The motors themselves are relatively inexpensive and if you look/shop around you'll find them nearly about the same price anyway. People have said that aftermarket support doesn't exist for the DOHC ZC because it's a JDM motor but this is not true. What you have to realize is that should you decide to build the DOHC ZC that some parts are interchangeable with a D16(XX) and some aren't. Other than that, you can do anything you want to DOHC ZC that you can a D16(XX). It really all comes down to money. Turbo? Supercharger? All motor? You can do it all.

I personally have a DOHC ZC in my 1991 Civic and living in California makes it illegal to use. I've had it in since 2001 and I beat the crap out of it, 8250 rpms on a chipped PM6 ecu, hard launches, canyon driving, etc. I really do abuse that car but despite that, I've never had any major issues with this motor and it can actually pass the emissions portion of a smog check (just won't pass visually). It's a good motor, good as any. What the real question you have to ask yourself is, realistically, how far do you expect this motor (or any motor for that matter) to take you? Are you planning on doing any REAL driving? What I mean is, are you planning on drag racing with it? Autocrossing? Track, circuit, etc. This might make the difference in your decision.

So, here's what it comes down to between the two motors.

*Both use the same mounts as stock
*Both have the same wiring differences (DOHC ZC has one sensor mounted differently than a regular D16(XX) motor)
*You can use your existing tranny with either motor or use a DX/Si tranny (Si highly recommended)

Personal advice...

If smog isn't an issue where you live AND you have no intention of pursuing additional power outside of normal bolt ons, go with the DOHC ZC.

Modified by 24TEN at 1:16 PM 12/3/2007


Modified by 24TEN at 1:18 PM 12/3/2007

 

well what i was looking to do was not go all out and put turbo or supercharge or nothign like that u know just get a good motor that has a lot of horse power where i dont have to change motor or tranny mounts you know not that much fabrication. port and polish change to mpfi, headers, straight pipe
(no cat or resinator) stock muffler and race once in a while on the freeway.
and i also do plan on changing the trany cuz the one i got is 4 speed and when im on the freeway im in 4th and im like crap u know lol

 

i have one piece headlights and a pillar with a dome panel for sell but i know know how to put it on the bottom of my post can some one please tell me thanks

 

IM Sent.

Back on topic, although I don't promote illegal street racing, if that's all you're doing is looking for more power with occasional runs, either motor would work. I've been beat by D16A6 equipped Civic/CRXs before and I've driven a stock Civic Si which was surprisingly pretty strong. Get your basic bolt ons and you'll be happy with either motor. I know, I used to have the same 4spd STD engine too LOL

 

well I am just gonna put this out there...you could swap in a SOHC D series such as the D16a6 and keep it DPFI and it would still run, probably not to the best of its ability but if you wanted to do the swap and then do MPFI conversion a little later you could...not sure if the DOHC and SOHC D series have the same intake mani flange or not...also just swapping a Si trans into your car will make a huge difference...I would start there if you are looking for a decent upgrade and a noticable different, but little work, trans swap and a new clutch maybe a stage 1 or 2 would make the car feel a little better...

My opnion and thats all it is...is the ZC is not gonna be the best choice...it is a decent motor but as stated it is a little more expensive and aftermarket support is very slim...replacement parts are getting harder to find and I really wouldn't suggest it for somes car that is a DD, again my opinion...I think the D16a6 is a great motor to swap...if you want an even better option, do some research on a mini-me set-up there is a little wiring to be done but you won't need to replace the entire motor its just a head swap and it will get you familar with your motor and also help you do some good maitence on your car...I think its a good one for someone new to Hondas to get into since it can be fairly simple to do with a manual and just taking your time...

HTH