Posted in the RR/AutoX Forum too...figured it was worth a shot here too...

So I have many suspension upgrades and need to get an alignment within the week, just got new tires and what not aswell...

Set Up (92 VX Hatch fully gutted, I mean FULLY)

GSR 4 Wheel disk w/SS lines
15mm Double Hubcentric Wheel Spacers w/extended lugs running LS mesh @ 30 offset Falken Ziex 912's (205/50/15) DAILY TIRE
Falken Azenis 615 (205/50/15) on 2nd LS Mesh (Track Set up)
Custom Autopower 4 point Roll bar (not installed yet)
Tein SS (Teg Rates w/custom upper extended mounts/all poly inserts)
Full Race Traction Bar
21mm Front EX Sway Bar/all poly bushings
All Front ES Poly Bushing Kit (LCA's)
Front Progress Poly Camber Kit
4 Point Lower "H" Brace
GSR Upper Strong Bar
Front Upper Strut Bar
SRR Rear LCA's
SRR Adjustable Rear "Toe Bar"
SRR Adjustable Rear "Camber Bar"
Prothane Rear Poly TA Bushings
22mm Progress Sway Bar/All Poly Bushings
ITR Rear Strut Bar
C PIllar Bar
HD Trunk Bar
Custom C Pillar/Trunk Bar X Brace
About a 3in drop or so (full strut travel still)

Thats all I can think of that might affect steering/control...

The car is daily driven and will be seeing the track again (HPDE mainly). Last alignment was a long time ago and the car was a bit higher, and not as many "bars" and most of the poly I should say.....the car has always had the adjustablity listed (camber/toe) the only recent addition was the Fullrace bar to adjust caster.

Now if I recall in the past my after alignment settings where

Front:
Camber - (-1.5) pass and (-1.3) Driver (even'd out w/me in driver seat)
Toe - (1/16th) Out (per side)

Rear:
Camber - (-2)
Toe - Zero


This set up felt good, the car was nuetral, but would rotate very easy w/weight transfer/brakes.......

Now I'm lower, have all poly, smaller front sway bar, FR traction bar, cage, etc etc...

What would you guys suggest w/this set up...

Front:
1/32 Toe Out (per side)
-1.7 Camber Pass
-1.5 Camber Driver
+1 Caster

Rear:
0 Toe
-2.5 Camber

Right now without an alignment the car is tail happy @ high speeds around corners, trail braking is in order to keep from sliding or throttle to keep it planted (lower entry speeds, way high exit speeds).....I'm going to increase rear air pressure to see if added heat will work on nuetralizing the car. after driving around for a while (hot tires) the car corners perfect!!! Point and shoot type of thing........

Just looking for something thats street/race......I only drive the car to work and back maybe a cruise so alil on the aggresive side won't be bad, looking to have tires last along time thought with constant rotations/flips......the car will be aligned on the street tires both sets are brand new.....

Up fo suggestions....should make good conversation...feel free to ask about the set up...thx...


Joser

 

well I see a few things that I wouldn't be using.

Mainly those poly trailing arm bushings. Those have been known to bind up and not allow proper trailing arm movement throughout the rear suspension's range of travel.

I also don't care for poly LCA bushings due to their maintenance issues, but if you want to be lubing them up all the time and changing them out every couple of years when they wear out and allow major slop in the suspension, more power to ya.

The adjustable toe compensator arms aren't the best thing, either. By adjusting toe with those instead of using the slotted hole in the chassis, you end up having unequal-length compensator arms, which can also make for some squirrelly handling issues.

Also keep in mind that using traction bars to adjust caster can cause even more binding problems with the front LCA bushings. If you want more caster, you might try swapping your upper control arms side-to-side.

I'm guessing you want the front tires slightly toe'd out for handling stability. Just keep in mind that any toe out will accelerate tire wear, especially when there is negative camber.

Any idea what kind of camber you were getting with stock upper control arms? Any problems with your Progress UCA's hitting the fender with your drop? You can run more negative camber without worrying about tire wear.

I know TunerN00b on here runs adjustable front UCA's to ADD negative camber, on the order of -4.0 degrees in front or something like that. He also runs them swapped side-to-side for added caster.

 

Hmmm

I do want adjust the rear toe bars to be equal length and use more of the slotted adjustment...the main reason for the upgrade was bushings, my old were ripped.....

I did hear about binding issues with the TA bushing but I've had no issues...I do need to remove them and lube them......you just lube the center bar right??

I put the front camber kit on so long ago I don't remember thats when I was on cut springs and stock shocks....the camber kit was the 1st name brand suspension part I bought so I wouldn't wear my low pro 16in wheels!! hahaha so don't have the readings with stock UCA's......I know when I got rid of the cut springs and went to Sprint EK rate springs and teg struts for an upgrade it gave the car a 2in drop, and my front camber was -.5 and rear camber was -1.........its a non adjustable kit....its poly joints reusing the stock control arm.......

I have no issues hitting the fender at all......I had sum rubbing issses under hard turns on the inside fender well.....but my spacers fixed that and rolled the fenders so both sides clear very well....

Swap arms side to side?? never heard of this......I'll have to search for info...

You are right on more camber w/toe out = tire wear.........guess there is never a win win....

wonder how bad zero toe all round would be w/camber nly and caster....eek!!

 

might try PM'ing TunerN00b, he's played around alot with suspension settings on his car.

So you have stock front upper control arms now, or not? I don't see how you could only have -.5 front camber with a 2" drop on stock UCA's. I'm dropped less than 2" (I think) and I have like -1.5 with stock front UCA's.

This is why I don't care for polyurethane bushings, after seeing this thread:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1563815

MASSIVE slop in that front LCA inner bushing! And I think he only had them for a couple of years and did lube them regularly.

 

the arms are stock, but the 2 connecting points to the chasis are progress poly or something...its shims the upper arm in a way, it replaces the entire 2 joints on the arm (not balljoint) with that arm installed and about a 2in drop I had -.5 camber after alignment.......

right now I'm lower and I'm sure I have a lot more camber...

 

ohhh duhh, it's the regular old Ingall's-style camber kit.

Besides the fact that I don't care for camber kits, I especially don't like that style because if you don't get both bushings on each control arm set exactly even, it can throw off your caster and cause those bushings to bind up.

 

Yeah, besides the P/U bushing issue, the alignment settings look good. That seems like quite a bit of negative camber in the rear, but if your car is neutral, than its not hurting anything obviously

 

I was thinking about the rear camber....

too much huh?? would that be what makes my tail end a lil loose as it sits now ?? Maybe if I do -2.0 rear and raise the tire PSI a bit.....

I've also read up on caster.....some say FWD should have as much caster as possible...the type are I guess comes with alil exta caster, even though on most production vehicles they say its never an even match side to side...

I was thinking like +3 caster....gotta do somemore reading...

Thanks for the reply's......looking to get as much imput as possible....

about the front camber kit....I've had no issues w/it and I've had it for 5 years.....I do want to upgrade to a SPC style kit (skunk2 scares me after past failure stories) However SPC makes the kit only for EK's....Imma call them cuz I found some other stuff in their catalog, but its $$$$ lol

Hows this sound

Front:
1/16tth Total Toe Out
-1.8 Camber Pass
-1.6 Camber Driver
+3 Caster

Imma try to get more camber(-2.0) outta the front its really not that adjustable type of kit, I might swap Upper Arms side to side to add more caster that way so the Full race bar does not take too much load since the car will see hard track time....and at the same time inspec the upper kit and see if its more adjustable.....

Rear:
0 Toe
-2.0 Camber

 

More negative camber in the rear should help keep the rear planted. Less camber would make it tend to step out more.

Increasing tire pressure should also make it a bit more loose in the rear.