The car is a 93 eh2. Suspension includes ksports kontrol pros 12k front 10k rear. Lowered 1 finger gap front, 2 finger rear. Tires 195/50/15 falken ziex 512, 15in 99-00 si wheels.

Problem:
Large inclines or dips on one side of the road. When approaching an incline, one wheel often goes into the air. My (New)parking garage has a deep drop and a large hill on the right side, causing the front right tire to go into the air. As a result, I must slowly ease into the driveway or else my left tire will spin if I gas it. My worry is that if the suspension gives out, I might end up flipped over on one side(driver's side).

Question:
Will going to OTS rates 10k/6k fix this problem? Or should I just dish out the suspension for stock shocks and lowering springs. Or should I just raise the car?

FYI: Safety is the number one priority(don't feel like getting my head smashed into the driver's side window.

 

im not 100% sure but could be becuz your running high spring rates. or becuz your dropped to low. bump 4 a straight answer

 

Those spring rates are crazy for the street. You do know that the stiffer the wheel rate, the LESS traction you have. On the street you are constantly encountering bad roads, uneven surfaces, potholes, gravel, water, dirt... these do not mix with race spring rates. I'm guessing this is why I find so many Honda's in the junkyard with all kinds of colorful suspension parts. That and because the driver's get real cocky.

Second you probably have NO travel at that ride height. I have no frame of reference for "finger" units so I can't say much more.

I'm guessing you also have some big sway bars.

Raise the car up first. 2 inch or less drop is optimal. I like it about 1.7 inches down from stock on a street car.

If you still have problems, change to street spring rates. A progressive rate may give you a good street/performance compromise.

Why do people think that what's good for the track is good for their daily driver? If you eat like an Olympic athlete but live like a normal Joe you end up quite fat.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by baller status &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those spring rates are crazy for the street. You do know that the stiffer the wheel rate, the LESS traction you have. On the street you are constantly encountering bad roads, uneven surfaces, potholes, gravel, water, dirt... these do not mix with race spring rates. I'm guessing this is why I find so many Honda's in the junkyard with all kinds of colorful suspension parts. That and because the driver's get real cocky.

Second you probably have NO travel at that ride height. I have no frame of reference for "finger" units so I can't say much more.

I'm guessing you also have some big sway bars.

Raise the car up first. 2 inch or less drop is optimal. I like it about 1.7 inches down from stock on a street car.

If you still have problems, change to street spring rates. A progressive rate may give you a good street/performance compromise.

Why do people think that what's good for the track is good for their daily driver? If you eat like an Olympic athlete but live like a normal Joe you end up quite fat.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Prior to moving to LA, the streets were, for the most part, very smooth. Which is why I chose such a high spring rate. I'm not so much concerned with ride comfort but moreso, performance. With these rates, I find a drastic handling improvement for the streets that I drive on a weekly basis, mountain roads inbetween counties. If you have driven on the freeways in Orange County and the back mountain road 74 ortega highway, you would understand why many SCCA racers enjoy Ortega. There are many cars with equal, if not, higher spring rates that take ortega on a daily basis, commuting to/from work.

However, since I am more prone to stay in LA, I do understand the need for a softer rate, which why I have a backup to get my coilovers to OTS rates, 10k/6k. But the question is, Is this enough to cure the problem?

In addition, I also have stock shocks with a progressive spring rate which would give me much more suspension travel. So in essence, I'm trying to figure out if the problem lies with the spring rates, the height, or the shock/spring rate combo.

Don't be so haste to flame.

 

sway bars, and JDM type shocks (super short bodied shocks) will cause this

 

The problem is lack of suspension droop travel, which as was mentioned is either caused by a large swaybar, or more likely is because of your short-body shocks.

My car always lifts the inside rear wheel when taking an incline, especially my driveway, because of my ITR rear sway bar, even with stock-length Koni shocks and OEM ITR rear springs.

 

From what I understand from previous posts, it has to do with the full coilover setup itself. In addition to the high spring rate. I guess the best bet is trial and error, i'm going to go with a lower spring rate, if the shock is too short, then back to stock shocks.

Thanks for the help

 

spring rate has NOTHING to do with it.

 

yep, shock length and sway bars are the only things that cause 3-wheel motion really.

 

I im trying to drive with 10/6 springs on my EG6 with 17' wheels. I think it is impossible to use the car for daily driving . Front suspension travel is ~50mm, rear ~25mm . I am going to try 7/4 springs. Stock springs are ~4/2

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2155127

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PARADOX_sf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I im trying to drive with 10/6 springs on my EG6 with 17' wheels. I think it is impossible to use the car for daily driving . Front suspension travel is ~50mm, rear ~25mm . I am going to try 7/4 springs. Stock springs are ~4/2

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2155127
</TD></TR></TABLE>

How does this relate to the OP? Spring rate has nothing to do with suspension travel as we have already said.

 

Springs determine suspension travel.
For example:
My car is 1060kg. Front springs are 10kg/mm, rear 6kg/mm. Springs are not compressed.
Front wheels carrys ~700kg, rear ~360kg. Lower arm is like lever. If you know the lower arm proportions and coilover slope you can calculate the exact suspension travel. If you use f/r 5/3 kg spring your suspension travel will be twice.

With 12/10kg springs if they are not compressed travel will be ~40mm in the front and ~15mm in the rear.
Just put your car on the jack. I think that in this case if you tray to lift the front wheel, rear will be first.

 

If your car is at a particular ride height (fender or jack point a certain distance from the ground), then suspension travel will ALWAYS be the same, no matter what spring is under there. Sure you would have your spring perches in different places with different spring rates and free lengths, but that's not what we're looking at here.

Suspension travel is the distance from shock absorber full droop to compressed as much as possible to the point where the shock either hits the bump stop, or the upper A-arm hits the shock tower. Spring rate has nothing to do with either of these. Shock absorber length and things like extended top mounts or using the lower fork trick on Konis affect suspension travel.

The only time a spring would affect suspension travel would be if there were no other obstructions such that the shock could be compressed enough to make the coil springs bind. In this case, a longer spring with more coils would not allow as much shock compression as would a shorter spring with fewer coils.

BTW if you keep your spring perch at the same height and switch to a softer spring, you will have less suspension compression travel because your car will sit lower, as the weight of the car will compress a softer spring more than a stiffer spring.

 

If you have full coilovers... each shock/spring setup is something like this:

Threaded Mount &lt;--- Threaded Damper &lt;--- Spring perch &lt;--- spring &lt;--- top mount

The threaded damper is shorter, to allow for more compression travel... with a lower ride height.

to increase the the rebound travel... lower the spring perch and lower and lower the threaded mount... but doing this will reduce your compression travel.

basically you are shifting the threaded damper up....

but, isn't compression travel more important than rebound travel?

 

It is unless you're lifting tires off the ground during cornering.

 

 

oh yeah, seen that happen lots of time, and I know that a swaybar will cause that, too.

You just don't want a front wheel to lift off, or a rear wheel on a RWD car.

 

I'm confused as to how the front wheel is coming off the ground.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gabebauman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm confused as to how the front wheel is coming off the ground. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The OP said his front wheel is coming off the ground when entering a parking garage with a large hill off at one side of the entrance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The OP said his front wheel is coming off the ground when entering a parking garage with a large hill off at one side of the entrance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah...I understand the concept...I just can't imagine the front end of the car not being heavy enough to stick to the ground.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yep, shock length and sway bars are the only things that cause 3-wheel motion really.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm gonna have to agree with Patrick here. OP, I wouldn't worry about changing out the springs if you're not getting backaches from a stiff suspension setup.

I was doing the 3-wheel motion for a while entering my garage complex with my RSR race spring and 22mm swaybar setup. But just a month after I switched to softer H&R's, *rip!*, subframe tearout.

The softer springs allow more compression and rebound travel. Therefore, you may have eleviated the "teetering" effect going up the same driveway with softer springs, but if you do indeed have a thicker (20mm or thicker?) aftermarket swaybar, you risk having all the load of the suspension travel on that corner to, not the swaybar, but to where the swaybar is mounted: the subframe, which is nothing more than thin sheetmetal. That's where I'd be concerned.

Hope this helped.

A-dub

 

yeah, I don't think the issue is suspension travel, as much as it is suspension "droop". no droop + stiff springs will allow the car to teeter-totter from corner to corner on uneven surfaces.

 

Maybe I should have included more information. The springs don't really compress much when I lower the car off the jack. Let's just say that it only takes three to four lifts of a jack to get the car off the ground. Which is why i'm thinking there's a possibility that a softer spring would give me some suspension travel.

Anyone care to comment on this?

BTW: as far as the front wheel lifting. It happens occassionally, typically backing out of driveways with inclines. But in this situation the majority of the weight gets shifted to the left when going over the hill. THen the weight of the car causes the wheel to come down and the rear left tire lifts a little.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bpr0422 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have full coilovers... each shock/spring setup is something like this:

Threaded Mount &lt;--- Threaded Damper &lt;--- Spring perch &lt;--- spring &lt;--- top mount

The threaded damper is shorter, to allow for more compression travel... with a lower ride height.

to increase the the rebound travel... lower the spring perch and lower and lower the threaded mount... but doing this will reduce your compression travel.

basically you are shifting the threaded damper up....

but, isn't compression travel more important than rebound travel? </TD></TR></TABLE>

You can only REDUCE available travel, whether in rebound or compression. You can't increase it, because to increase travel you'd
a. Have to have reduced it to begin with (so you'd basically just be re-gaining what you lost in the first place), or
b. Lengthened the shock body, and/or
c. Gone with softer swaybars or disconnect them entirely as mentioned.

Using the method described above would be silly, the OP would be in the same position he started with, only with a greater likelihood of bottoming out. And to re-iterate, spring rates do not have anything to do with suspension travel. Given enough force, the suspension is going to compress and rebound as much as is allowed given the design of the suspension components that actually *do* have an effect on travel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Using the method described above would be silly, the OP would be in the same position he started with, only with a greater likelihood of bottoming out. And to re-iterate, spring rates do not have anything to do with suspension travel. Given enough force, the suspension is going to compress and rebound as much as is allowed given the design of the suspension components that actually *do* have an effect on travel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oOoooo

i thought his suspension was travel was limited by his shocks and not by the swaybar... cause the OP never posted that he had a swaybar...

but it does make sense that the swaybar would limit the rebound travel...cause the swaybar links it to the opposite side, so that behaves almost like the opposite side...

but in my defense.. i did give him a warning about shifting the shock body... in that it would reduce compression travel...

cause this was how i was thinking it..

If when the car on a flat surface... the shock is something like this:
---------------------------
|~~~~~~|=======|=======
---------------------------

Then when he goes on his ramp.... and 3wheels:
---------------------------
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~||==============
---------------------------

if he shifted it so when its parked.... yes it would increase the risk of bottoming out...
---------------------------
|~~~~|=========|=====
---------------------------

but it would allow for a little more rebound...

right?