Hey so ive been doing quite a bit of research and i know theres a thread on this but its quite old so im going to post up a new one

Im planning on boosting my h23 with dsm parts that i can aquire locally, but before i do this i would like some opinions of fellow people and just what they think about it

14B or B16G Turbo
1g Turbo manifold--should i go stock or aftermarket?
1g bov same question^^
450cc injectors
dont want to use the stock smic so im going to get a fmic
B&M Fuel Regulator
SAFC

Is there anything im missing or just should change?
Thanks for you opinion

 

you should post this in the forced induction section..dsm 450s are crap

 

ya ill post there too i just wanted some other prelude owner's opinions
but thanks though

what would you recommend for injectors?

 

if its going to be a daily driver id get some rc injectors. dsm 450s do not hold up

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h23vtecpowered &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its going to be a daily driver id get some rc injectors. dsm 450s do not hold up</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I saw the other day in the 4th gen picture thread that a guy was running a 16g with dsm 450's on his h23. Regardless of what boost he's running that thing is not going to last. 450's are well over 100% DC at even under 300hp.

 

^DSM 450's will do there job for a mild setup to about 250hp. i dont find anything wrong with them. just before you use them get them tested and cleaned


the turbos are going to limit you to about 200-230 hp because they start to run out of breath in the top of the RPM range, but for a mild street setup, i'd go for it! i was going to do the same thing....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h23vtecpowered &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dsm 450s are crap</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not if you spend the $100 to have them B&B'd by RC. When I sent them in they were a sloppy 425-435 across the board and when I got them back they were a clean and fresh 462-465 across the board. If you can dig them up for $50-75/set or better yet Free, they are very worthy of the task.
Just posting that they are crap w/o an explaination is a worthless reply.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95greenlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^DSM 450's will do there job for a mild setup to about 250hp. i dont find anything wrong with them. just before you use them get them tested and cleaned

the turbos are going to limit you to about 200-230 hp because they start to run out of breath in the top of the RPM range, but for a mild street setup, i'd go for it! i was going to do the same thing.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
We made ~300whp just fine with them and weren't even maxxing them out. Why would the 14b run out of breath at high RPM when they are meanty for 2.0's that rev beyond the h23?

Spend the money on managment......Use the DSM 14B but maybe have it rebuilt.
Budget Boost! Although I prefer it on Civics!
You can always upgrade to a 16 or 18g in the future cheap. DSM guys are always swapping snails...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ::NirVTEC:: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not if you spend the $100 to have them B&B'd by RC. When I sent them in they were a sloppy 425-435 across the board and when I got them back they were a clean and fresh 462-465 across the board. If you can dig them up for $50-75/set or better yet Free, they are very worthy of the task.
Just posting that they are crap w/o an explaination is a worthless reply.


We made ~300whp just fine with them and weren't even maxxing them out. Why would the 14b run out of breath at high RPM when they are meanty for 2.0's that rev beyond the h23?

Spend the money on managment......Use the DSM 14B but maybe have it rebuilt.
Budget Boost! Although I prefer it on Civics!
You can always upgrade to a 16 or 18g in the future cheap. DSM guys are always swapping snails...</TD></TR></TABLE>
if you keep reading you will see where i explained. i wouldnt have said what you said because ive never used them bc i have heard bad things. i have not used them nor known anyone that has took the time to get them b&b'd. so before you go bashing my comments make sure you read my other post. for the cost of the injectors and to get them b&b'd you can just buy a set of rc injectors and be done with it. i was giving the guy some guidance and told him what i would run

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ::NirVTEC:: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We made ~300whp just fine with them and weren't even maxxing them out. Why would the 14b run out of breath at high RPM when they are meanty for 2.0's that rev beyond the h23?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

the turbo just isnt big enough and doesnt flow enough CFM to support a 2.3L....


sorry let me clarify, all of this is assuming its on a stock block at maybe 6-8 psi......@ 20psi i'm not sure what would happen

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95greenlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the turbo just isnt big enough and doesnt flow enough CFM to support a 2.3L....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Makes sense to me. Glad to see a reference to CFM in relation to Turbos instead of the usual PSI.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h23vtecpowered &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if you keep reading you will see where i explained. i wouldnt have said what you said because ive never used them bc i have heard bad things. i have not used them nor known anyone that has took the time to get them b&b'd. so before you go bashing my comments make sure you read my other post. for the cost of the injectors and to get them b&b'd you can just buy a set of rc injectors and be done with it. i was giving the guy some guidance and told him what i would run </TD></TR></TABLE>
Where did I bash your comments. You posted a 1 line reply.
So $100 to B&B and Free-$75 for DSMs is the same cost as a set of RCs?
People need to start staying out of posts that they don't have personal experience to contribute to.
If he's doing a DSM Turbo, he's VERY budget minded and every $50-100 counts. Money is better saved for tuning than spending another $50-200 on injectors that he won't benefit from.


I am in the process of doing the same setup but on my 1.5 liter Civic and any money saved is money earned. I'd rather use a $100 turbo, $200 manifold, $100 injectors and spend $500 on management & tuning than waste money on unecessary parts. I'm going to be using B&B'd Prelude injectors because they are Free+$100 and will do the job just fine for 200whp. As I have seen with my own eyes!

 

thanks for the interest in this topic, its helping me alot on my decision and yes i am budget minded so you're on the money about that, im trying to watch what i spend and trying to look for good deals locally and on the web

i did also post this in the forced induction and a guy said this


"The Big 16g is the absolute smallest turbo i'd use on your H23. With that turbo, you're going to build boost VERY rapidly, then once your engine gets into the higher RPM range, the turbo wont be able to supply enough air and will rapidly fall off....IMO, get something a little larger and definately DO NOT use a 14b on your H23...that would be a terrible combination.

As for the rest of the setup, you can use the DSM BOV, but i would avoid using a VAFC for tuning. These days using a chipped ECU and a program like Crome is the only way to go. They're so cheap and effective that is almost stupid to do anything else."


so just wondering what your guys' opinions is on this

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95greenlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

sorry let me clarify, all of this is assuming its on a stock block at maybe 6-8 psi......@ 20psi i'm not sure what would happen</TD></TR></TABLE>

and yes i'm planning on running about 8-9 psi

 

^you can use a 14b but like they said you wont get enough air supplied to your engine to make a lot of power. it would probably spool at 2500 rpm and only push till about 5.5-6k.

you can use a 1g DSM BOV, and crome is cheap and effective.

 

To add a little. A dsm turbo (t25 , 14b, 16g) used on our big bad h23's is NOT sufficient enough to make power throughout the rpm range to redline. If you've ever seen a dyno graph of any of the above, they spool at ~2,000rpm and the graph shows the turbo falling on it's face by 5,000. IE why I said it would be choking itself out, because once it runs out of volumetric efficiency it's pointless.
A t3 with a t04e compressor housing sounds a little more like it. You can run less boost, make more power and it won't be hurting anything because it can breath up top.
DSM 450's are well over 100% duty cycle at 300whp. I'm sure the OP isn't planning on making quite that much, just don't push your luck as far as what your injectors can do. But ~250whp mild setups you should be fine with 450's, check into a bigger Walbro fuel pump as well. There's a guy local selling a BRAND NEW 255lph along with 4 DSM 450's for $135. It's not that much more money and well worth the peace of mind knowing you're not killing what you do have. I understand the budget boost thing... Just don't bite yourself in the *** by buying one thing and maxing it out to the point of it not lasting long and having to go back and buy something again. Crome is good. Basically what the guy told you is good.
I'd look into something with a 57 trim compressor and a .60 or .63 exhaust side AR. Should make nicely at 6psi, ~250whp+. Don't run 8 or 9lbs with something that flows like a polished cow turd when you can run less boost and cfm (saving your motor) safer and make better power.
Hope this helps.

 

hmm great info im planning on the 16g atm and also to get that fuel pump as you said however im not familiar with the crome program so im kind of sketchy about using that. I'll have to do some more research on that if i dont use an SAFC

 

the thing about the SAFC is that it can only control fuel, not timing.

crome can do both

 

x2

that 6 psi of boost could put you around 230-250 with your setup

your doing what I'm doing right now, thats too funny!!

 

Let me add this... Your not going to make 300whp out of a 16G on an H23 easily at all. People with built blocks have pushed 18G's (the turbo I have) to its limits at 22 pounds and haven't made 300whp. Sure maybe with better exhaust and other supporting mods 300whp is possible with an 18G but hardly with 14b or 16G. BTW dsm 450's are just fine for you first turbo build dont listen to the others.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ProjectBB6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Let me add this... Your not going to make 300whp out of a 16G on an H23 easily at all. People with built blocks have pushed 18G's (the turbo I have) to its limits at 22 pounds and haven't made 300whp. Sure maybe with better exhaust and other supporting mods 300whp is possible with an 18G but hardly with 14b or 16G. BTW dsm 450's are just fine for you first turbo build dont listen to the others.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also, take note that I gave reasons and hp limits with why I say to steer away from those injectors once you surpass a certain hp mark, I didn't say to not use them at all.
Also for the power, again I will say, find the turbo I already told you about, at 9lbs a guy has made 275whp in his h23 (granted he had a simple Eagle/Wiseco setup too). Find something used, have it rebuilt and you're still cheaper than buying a brand new Garrett, although Garrett is my reccomends as far as turbochargers are concerned.
Like 95greenlude stated, DO NOT run an SAFC. Chrome is not very hard to use from what I hear and as already said, you can't change timing with it. You'll really be at a loss using an SAFC... Chrome is the way to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattsnooz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">x2

that 6 psi of boost could put you around 230-250 with your setup

your doing what I'm doing right now, thats too funny!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool, how is your setup going for you? any pointers?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95greenlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the thing about the SAFC is that it can only control fuel, not timing.

crome can do both</TD></TR></TABLE>

what can control timing alone? other than crome

 

lots... hondata, neptune

 

Going to have to do some digging for them[dynos] but my friend had great luck with the 14B on his H23. I think if you're keeping it to lower PSI it'll work out just fine. Spooling fast is good but if the top end sucks its not worth it, but we're talking about an H23 not a higher revving H22.
Personally I think its a great way to start out......rather than buying a different turbo manifold and an expensive turbo.
I wonder if starting with a Ported 14b would help...
14b's are a dime a dozen at dsm.org
IIRC Used ones were $50-$100 and Ported ones were $100-200

 

Some time cheap isnt the best way to go. Mitsu turbos have been known to have oil seals go out. Because my setup was TDO5 I couldnt just swap out the turbo for an SC61. I had to buy the SC61, a new manifold, wastegate, downpipe, gaskets. It is the turbo I should have gone with in the first place. The 18G is lots of fun down low...but uptop not as much. I Say do it right the first time. Dont just do a cheap build. The power you will make at 6psi with a tdo4 16g will be pathetic lol.

 

^not everyone needs/wants 300 hp though.....

a 16g will be perfect for just around town, someone who just wants a little more power out of their prelude


and if someone is opting for a DSM turbo setup.......cheap is the way to go.....cutting corners is where you mess things up

 

I boosted my f22a1 and the h23 is pretty much EXACTLY the same...minus .1L displacement, DOHC vs SOHC, FRM and Compression is a little higher on the h23. If you want to ask any questions just pm me... I don't really feel like posting my experience to have people disagree with me or anything... But just for future reference if you message me.

f22a1
t3/t04e 50trim Absolutely love it!`
log mani
DSM 450 injectors Nice response
walbro 255lph
CROME on a p06....Hondata in a p75 for my next tune
FMIC
Turbo xs RFL BOV
2.5" intercooler piping
Catch can
ARP Head studs
h23 intake manifold

Just pm me for questions