ayyy...wuts happenin...i kno theres been a few threads on drum2disc conversions but not on exactly wut i need...i did a swap bout a year ago...but problem is ever since then my braking hasnt been tha same in a bad way...anwayz been askin around n ppl been sayin i need to swap the master cyl. and tha booster...sum say i need to jus get an Si proportioning valve...iono whos right...so jus wanna put this Q up there...thanx in adavance...wun...

 

I ran with a rear disc conversion for over a year with the stock master cylinder and prop valve. I had no problems at all. Upgrading the MC is not necessary.

How has the conversion affected your braking in a negative way?

 

I think that all depends on what model of civic you started with. I believe the ex and si are pretty much the same. At least the master cylinder, booster and proportioning valves will be adequate.

If your swapping disk brakes into an lx, hx or dx, you will need all three.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burnt Toast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that all depends on what model of civic you started with. I believe the ex and si are pretty much the same. At least the master cylinder, booster and proportioning valves will be adequate.

If your swapping disk brakes into an lx, hx or dx, you will need all three. </TD></TR></TABLE>

WRONG!!! all you need is a master cyclinder out of a 91 civic EX (i thing 4 door) it is 15/16th and a prop valve that is 40/40

Also you forgot about CX and VX models

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soichiro_Fan04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">problem is ever since then my braking hasnt been tha same in a bad way</TD></TR></TABLE>
You need to be specific on what the problem is, otherwise I can't help you. "The braking hasn't been the same" isn't a symptom of any particular problem. In addition, you should type in proper English because you are difficult to understand.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pythoner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WRONG!!! all you need is a master cyclinder out of a 91 civic EX (i thing 4 door) it is 15/16th and a prop valve that is 40/40

Also you forgot about CX and VX models</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, actually you're the one who is wrong.

A rear disc brake conversion does not require any change in master cylinder diameter whatsoever. Honda even confirmed this by equipping the '92-95 Civic Si non-ABS with a 13/16" master cylinder from the factory.

In addition, the 4040 (it's not stamped "40/40") proportioning valve is not applicable for all rear disc brake conversions, nor is it applicable to the 6th-generation Civic chassis, which the original poster owns.

 

my fault on my english...it was late at night jus frustrated from skool...anywayz wut i meant by "not stopping tha same way" is tha fact that my stopping distance has increased...ive tested my ej in an open lot from 30 mph and 60 mph...from drums to disc it has really changed...thats why i thought i needed to swap the prop valve...id figure since tha job of the prop valve is to limit brake fluid from getting sent to the rear until the front brakes has received its pre-calculated amount. everytime i stop it feels like my car is nose-diving even at 20 mph and im not stopping hard...does that sound right??? also wutchu guyz think bout gettin a 99-00 si prop valve if that is wut i need? thanx...

 

did u bleed the brakes correctly?

 

i have a dx with ex rear brake conversion and i didnt swap a damn thing except the brakes.

it stops a lot better, the only issue ive had is the rear brakes tend to lock up if i hammer the pedal down.

 

to OP the reason that people swap the MC/booster is usual with the 94-00 teg one. because it pushes more fluid to the brakes and gives a firmer pedal feel. you do not have to do it, but it is nicer if you do. i ran my crcx with just the rear disc swap and the pedal went down lower than stock.. with the m/c,booster, and 4040 the pedal feel was much better. its all choice..

 

Ill add my two cents...not like they mean much, but if you look at part numbers alone the 96-00 Ex's share the same brake booster and brake master cylinder as the 99-00 Si's. The only thing they dont share is the proportioning valve. So that would leave one to believe that if you were wanting Si brakes on your Ex all you would need to swap is a Si prop valve (yes I know there are other 6th gen models that share the same prop valve as the 99-00 Si).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In addition, the 4040 (it's not stamped "40/40") proportioning valve is not applicable for all rear disc brake conversions, nor is it applicable to the 6th-generation Civic chassis, which the original poster owns.</TD></TR></TABLE>Really? I mean I knew the 6th gens werent marked and thats what alot of people are confused about, but not applicable? Care to shed some light on this?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CerealWars &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ill add my two cents...not like they mean much, but if you look at part numbers alone the 96-00 Ex's share the same brake booster and brake master cylinder as the 99-00 Si's.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is correct. Both the '96-00 EX and Si shared the same 7/8" master cylinder, because they had the same front brakes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only thing they dont share is the proportioning valve. So that would leave one to believe that if you were wanting Si brakes on your Ex all you would need to swap is a Si prop valve (yes I know there are other 6th gen models that share the same prop valve as the 99-00 Si).</TD></TR></TABLE>
The '99-00 Si shares the same proportioning valve with '96-00 3dr CX, 2dr and 3dr DX, and 2dr HX trims (part number 46210-S04-902). The 4dr DX, 4dr LX, and 2dr and 4dr EX models are different.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really? I mean I knew the 6th gens werent marked and thats what alot of people are confused about, but not applicable? Care to shed some light on this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is an '88-95 Civic/CRX proportioning valve: http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson...0.jpg

This is a '96-00 Civic proportioning valve: http://i17.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg

I think you can deduce what the problem is here.

 

proportioning valve number
99 ex 46210-S04-961
99 si 46210-S04-901
99 3dr cx 46210-S04-901
99 3dr dx 46210-S04-901
99 4dr dx 46210-S04-911
99 2dr dx 46210-S04-901
96 2dr ex = 46210-S04-961
96 2dr cx = 46210-S04-901
96 2dr hx = 46210-S04-901

Master Cylinder
99 si = 46100-S04-A12
99 ex = 46100-S04-A12
99 hx = 46100-S04-A02
99 3dr cx = 46100-S04-A02
99 3dr dx = 46100-S04-A02
99 4dr dx = 46100-S04-A02
99 4dr lx = 46100-S04-A02
96 2dr dx = 46100-S04-A01
96 2dr ex = 46100-S04-A11
96 2dr hx = 46100-S04-A01 or 46100-S04-A02

The OP says he has a 96 ej coupe in his profile. I think he needs a 99-00 ex/si master cylinder. That is the only component that has a different part number from the si. The si was the only model that had disk brakes from 96-00. I have read this on other drum to disk swap threads. Most of them you don't NEED it, but should have it for full performance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This is an '88-95 Civic/CRX proportioning valve: http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson...0.jpg

This is a '96-00 Civic proportioning valve: http://i17.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg

I think you can deduce what the problem is here.</TD></TR></TABLE>I wish I could. I mean I can see the difference and can see how they hook up differently, but I still dont understand why there would be a different part number for the Si one and my Ex one if it wasnt needed. I do remember reading once someone saying that the 6th gen prop valves were all the same or that theres no internal difference, but that just doesnt seem right to me. This was what I wanted clarification on. Are all 6th gen prop valves the same...and if not why would you tell someone that its not needed on a rear disc swap. Really not trying to be an ***...so please dont interpret it that way. Just want some straight answers. Thanks.

 

He was correct on what models share the same part numbered proportioning valve. I can't explain what a 99-00 si and ex share the same front brakes and master cylinder, but use a different proportioning valve.

 

It is needed. If you put 9.5" rear discs with 7CLP13S calipers on a 6th-gen EX, you will need the "Si" proportioning valve to maintain the stock brake proportioning.

I'd have to drive the car personally to give you an opinion, but I have doubts that a proportioning valve swap will improve your situation, if indeed there is a problem at all. I think there is something else going on with the car. You do realize that swapping from rear drums to discs alone will not decrease stopping distances at all, right?

Can you lock up the wheels at all? What sort of springs, dampers, tires, and brake pads are you running? Have you bled out all four corners in the proper order (RR&gt;LF&gt;LR&gt;RF) and with clean, fresh DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid?

Not all '94-00 Integras use the same master cylinder. In fact, there are drastic differences throughout that year range.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you do not have to do it, but it is nicer if you do. i ran my crcx with just the rear disc swap and the pedal went down lower than stock.. with the m/c,booster, and 4040 the pedal feel was much better.</TD></TR></TABLE>
By explaining this without including all the facts, you're implying that the sole reason the pedal catch point was low was because you had swapped rear disc brakes onto your vehicle that had previously been equipped with drums. This is not true. There was something else wrong with your brakes - either they were not bled properly, the parking brake had not been adjusted properly, or they were otherwise worn or out of adjustment in some way.

What front calipers do you have? If they aren't 17CL14VNs, the 4040 is not the correct proportioning valve for your application.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who said that? I didn't. I think you perhaps misunderstood the intended meaning of my words. I had explained that the 4040 proportioning valve (specifically found on '90-93 Integras without ABS) is not applicable for every single rear disc application (because not every car with 4-wheel disc brakes has 17CL14VN front calipers and 7CLP13S rears), nor is it applicable to '96-00 Civics (for the specific reason that it doesn't fit).

The 4040 proportioning valve has nothing to do with this thread, because the original poster owns a '96 Civic, which appears to be an EX judging by his avatar, thus he should be running a 46210-S04-902 proportioning valve with his rear discs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>That right there clears it up for me. Thank you. I had misunderstood what you had said...read it a different way.

 

so what is the diffrents between the abs pv and non pv on the 94-01 tegs? pic would help

 

yeah i got an EX...anyways its completely stock...i havent drop cash on suspension or wheels and tires (next thing to do)...i worked on tha swap at night from 10pm to 1am...i vacuum bled tha proper way RR,LR,RF,LF...i might have not completely bled them out cuz i was falling asleep...but with the best of my knowledge i completely bled them out...hey im not perfect so it is a possibility...ill go chek up on them n see indeed if i have sum air pockets...the only problem is if i had a lil bit of air stuck in there, i would have a low or spongy brake pedal...that is not my case...when i stop it dont feel as firm as it used to when i had my drums...ill go chek out tha 99-00 si prop valve...anywun recommend a gud shop that has em??? ive bin to tha junk yards in my area n there arent any SI's layin around nor do i want to cop one from tha dealer - about $200...

 

Im sorry, but a new prop valve from the dealer is not $200. http://www.slhondaparts.com/br...4-902 As for where you can get them...everywhere. Look to eBay, look in the classifieds, look in your local junk yards, but look for the cars that were listed. Youll have better luck finding those.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by highlandparkbigpimpn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so what is the diffrents between the abs pv and non pv on the 94-01 tegs? pic would help </TD></TR></TABLE>
There is no proportioning valve on a car equipped with ABS - there is just a dummy distribution block where the proportioning valve would be.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soichiro_Fan04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ill go chek out tha 99-00 si prop valve...anywun recommend a gud shop that has em??? ive bin to tha junk yards in my area n there arent any SI's layin around</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, the Si shared the same proportioning valve with '96-00 3dr CX, 2dr and 3dr DX, and 2dr HX trims, so a valve from any of those specific cars will work the same. I still don't think that's your problem though.

Where did you get the rear disc conversion? Did you install new pads and rotors along with it? Is the parking brake mechanism adjusted correctly?

 

 

i got em from tha horrible PASSWORD JDM...sorry im knockin on them...got em for a kool 2 bills...supposedly from an EF cuz tha rotors were marked EF on em...i got one new caliper cuz one side was seized...both trailing arms were rusted out...i had to cut a total of .040 in. on each rotor!!!! thats how bad tha rust were...i kept tha pads cuz for sum reason they were still gud...replaced tha E-brake cables cuz they dint come wit them oh yeah not to mention tha lines...i got sum EArl's steel braided but havent put em on yet till i find out my problem...lets see ebrake is a bit high i should adjust them so that they click only 7 cuz theyre at 15 rite now...you kno wut i chekd out my pedal...iono if its normal or not but i got about a 1/4 in. of play in tha pedal before it engages...could it be tha linkage??? is that why it feels soft???

 

clever