This post isn't to get more information so don't say, "Search". It's just to get your opinions about the pros and cons of each swap and which you prefer.

And let me just add that the goal of this swap is not to have a 12 sec race car. It's to have maybe a 14.5 car that is street legal.

One thing i can think of that is good for the Mini-Me is that you KNOW the engines will be newer than compared to the ZC.

And i read on JG Dynamics that the ZC head was a poor design and that if you knew how to do it right and fix it up, you could really squeeze out a lot of HP. A lot more than the more newer and bettter designed Y8 or Z6 heads. Check out th link.

http://www.jgenginedynamics.co...E.pdf


As for the cost, i am guessing they are about the same?

So what are your thoughts on each swaps? Which do you prefer and why? Again, the goal is to attain a street driveable 14.5 car and not to go 12 seconds.

 

Well the ZC is a good engine but getting harder to find. It has less aftermarket support than the other d series engines. I like the ZC but when you need certain things for it its a pain to find.

The mini me has alot of aftermarket support and has been done many times. the motors are easy to find in case of a spun bearing or something. it all really depends on what you want to do with the car.

 

DOHC ZC swap would require no wiring if your car is mpfi. SOHC VTEC swap would require OBD1 and some extra parts.

Weigh both options carefully. I would recommend the DOHC ZC as they are good engines if they are clean. Using an Si tranny they sure do have some get up and go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DOHC ZC swap would require no wiring if your car is mpfi. SOHC VTEC swap would require OBD1 and some extra parts.

Weigh both options carefully. I would recommend the DOHC ZC as they are good engines if they are clean. Using an Si tranny they sure do have some get up and go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, the thing is, i have an HF. So if i wanted to get a ZC, i will have to get the Si tranny or ZC tranny right?

But anyways, i noticed in your sig that you have a ZC in your wagon. What are your thoughts on the engine?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by klion22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But anyways, i noticed in your sig that you have a ZC in your wagon. What are your thoughts on the engine? </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I would recommend the DOHC ZC as they are good engines if they are clean. Using an Si tranny they sure do have some get up and go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol

 

You could use the SI but I recommend the ZC trans with the big axles. it has a half shaft and uses b series axles it helps with torque steer. I run a DOHC ZC in my 90 SI and I love it. The HF trans will work if you are on a budget and need to use it for a while but the gear ratios are horrible for the ZC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90efhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could use the SI but I recommend the ZC trans with the big axles. it has a half shaft and uses b series axles it helps with torque steer. I run a DOHC ZC in my 90 SI and I love it. The HF trans will work if you are on a budget and need to use it for a while but the gear ratios are horrible for the ZC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you notice a big difference from the Si engine and the ZC? What mods have you done to your car?

And have you considered getting your head done by a professional?

While i don't know much about much about cars, i do think that a lot of young people who have access to a porting machine just make the ports bigger without realize that veloctiy is just as important. And that might hurt HP. And i think when you do headwork, you have to leave it to the pros who test this type of stuff.

 

There is a noticeable difference in the ZC over the SI. I have just basic bolt ons on mine. Intake Header and some of the exhaust has been done the axle back has been changed. the head is completely stock for now. I autocross so I dont need that much power. I have though about having someone port the head but its not one of my biggest concerns right now. I agree that porting should be done by pros but I have a junk ZC head that I am planning on trying my porting skills out on. If you just port match and not try and make the port massive there is a small gain but thats about all I would do.

 

I like this thread, some good discussion going on.

Anyway, I'd have to agree that the ZC is getting harder to find and has less aftermarket support than the D series and mini me swaps. Yet if you're just looking for a 14.5 street car, then the ZC is definately a good choice. Obviously there are quite a few people who have done the swap, so there's lots of help out there for you.

Personally I would go for the ZC, because its' still one of the more original swaps and they are more tuneable with the DOHC set up over the SOHC d series. I'd do more research for parts for the ZC so you can make sure you'll be able to hit your 14.5 mark, but I don't think it'll be a problem with just a Cam some head work and a good tune.

I acutally have an Si transmission I can rebuild and sell you. I have a Final Drive for an 88 (21 spline input shaft) and for the 89-91 (20 spline input shaft), so if you're interested let me know. As for the ZC tranny, I have broken three of the diffs in them and say I think you should just get an Si tranny and stuff a LSD in there. I did the same and put a 4.43 final drive in mine with the Si gears and am loving it! The ZC trannys are expensive and getting more so with people like me blowing them up sorry.

Anyway, good luck, let us know what you end up doin.

 

Im running a Dohc Zc, T3/T4e 57 trim at 10lbs. I made 230hp on the dyno and ran a 14.2 @ 100mph. I love my Zc. However, you can probaly expect the same #'s from the mini-me. Also, i use the Zc tranny, which i agree is much better. Try this site for more info
TheZCR.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90efhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a noticeable difference in the ZC over the SI. I have just basic bolt ons on mine. Intake Header and some of the exhaust has been done the axle back has been changed. the head is completely stock for now. I autocross so I dont need that much power. I have though about having someone port the head but its not one of my biggest concerns right now. I agree that porting should be done by pros but I have a junk ZC head that I am planning on trying my porting skills out on. If you just port match and not try and make the port massive there is a small gain but thats about all I would do.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, if you autocross, you don't need to be obssessed with HP.

But as for the headwork discussion, i can't help but think how much more HP a ZC will make if i tell the guys at JG Dynamics to work on that thing. And if i replaced all the internals like rods, crank, pistons, springs, and install a mile cam and tune it right with the bolt ons and a ZC ECU.

I think with that set up, i could definitely hit 14s all day. Maybe even low 13's. But replacing the internals does cost a lot of money. But at the same time, i know i will have put in all new internals which makes the engine that much more durable and stronger.

 

Here's another newbie question.

If i were to get an aftermarket race cam (even the mildest set up), would i have to adjust my valves regularly because it's an aftermarket cam?

 

I would leave the crank alone. I have never heard of one breaking on all motor and think that its just fine. I would like to get JG to work my head but I have a couple of project cars and could use the 1000 somewhere else right now.

 

Dont think so. I have an aftermarket cam in my other car and have not had to keep adjusting it. Just at first, but I also have not had it in there very long.

 

Would you guys say that if i bought a ZC and replaced all of the internals with new parts that my engine would be "like new"? And in that case, my engine would last a lot longer than other ZCs with worn out internals?

 

I would go with a zc and turbo it.......I had an a6 mini-me and then I decided I wanted more power......so I rebuilt a z6 with a bunch of goodies and it is now ready for boost.....I didn't want to boost the mini me cause of the compression

 

From what I have seen with the ZC's at least the ones that I have. when you get them they dont have that many miles on them and it would almost be a waste of cash to redo it. it all depends on how well the engine was taken care of. you can pull the valve cover and oil pan off and see if there is any sludge in there. if it looks good and clean then I would not mess with it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90efhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From what I have seen with the ZC's at least the ones that I have. when you get them they dont have that many miles on them and it would almost be a waste of cash to redo it. it all depends on how well the engine was taken care of. you can pull the valve cover and oil pan off and see if there is any sludge in there. if it looks good and clean then I would not mess with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, i've been to Japan and know that it's a small country and that a lot of people do not drive a lot because they have to pay a lot of money just to use the freeways. So i do think that most ZCs from Japan have low mileage on them as it's just not possible to put on too many miles for the reasons mentioned above.

But what i'm saying is that i wouldn't just be replacing those parts with stock parts but i would be replacing them with stronger and better performing parts. So i will get more durability along with better performance. And in the long run, wouldn't that make sense if i plan on keeping this car forever?

 

That would make sense. If you have the cash to do it go for it. You can get a set of eagle rods to go in there you just have to notch the block a little. The bore is the same as other d series engines so pistons are easy to find.

web site on block notching info.
http://www.theoldone.com/artic...Ftips/

 

if jg ports your head, they said they can get UP TO 25hp. that's with the most expensive port job i'm sure. at that time you have enough money to get a DOHC VTEC swap which will have more hp out of the box then a zc with a ported head. a gsr will have you runnin 14's all day long with bolt ons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by loudandlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if jg ports your head, they said they can get UP TO 25hp. that's with the most expensive port job i'm sure. at that time you have enough money to get a DOHC VTEC swap which will have more hp out of the box then a zc with a ported head. a gsr will have you runnin 14's all day long with bolt ons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, i know.

Believe me, if i knew how to do the swap myself, i would get a GSR and just get the bolt ons and i know i would be running 14's all day. But i don't have that luxury. I don't know how to do a swap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by klion22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would you guys say that if i bought a ZC and replaced all of the internals with new parts that my engine would be "like new"? And in that case, my engine would last a lot longer than other ZCs with worn out internals?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, a rebuild would help. There are a lot of parts you should be replacing before swapping the motor anyways.

I had a DOHC ZC for 5 years and NEVER had any problems with it. I mostly went easy on the motor but it survived a few track runs a year and some "spirited driving" ever so often. Loved the motor more than the B16A because of the extra torque and lower RPM peak HP. VTEC is overrated IMO.

And FYI there isn't really a lack of aftermarket for the motor, the parts are just harder to find than other D-series engines.

 

I would guess that getting a ZC and replacing all of the internals along with getting a fully worked head would cost about as much as putting in a clean b16 right?

But i would guess that the ZC would be considerably faster because the B16 would be stock with just the bolt ons while the ZC would have a newly built engine.

In that case, i think the ZC would make more sense for ME because i would be happy with 14s and i would not be obssessed about going faster.

Would you guys agree? Or just go B16 with bolt ons?

 

i was on the same lines of thinking as you actually...i wanted a little more pep but wasnt trying to go nuts with it budget wise...i did the dohc zc swap as my first swap and it was simple and straightforward....w/ intake, header and 2 1/4" catless exhaust im pretty happy with it...i picked the motor up for $750 shipped but i had to replace the headgasket and there was a bunch-o-sludge in it ...so i took it apart and cleaned it up, threw her in and she pulls decent man! and if you go zc, a pm6 will work...but i highly recommend a pg7 at the least

 

Anyone here running a DOHC ZC with a supercharger?

I really don't wanna turbo my car. Right now all I have is just a DC header and DC exhaust. The DC Header looks cheap as hell so I will be replacing it sooner or later.

How well does it respond to a SC? How about a nitrous setup?