Howdy,

Having problems on decided what I really need to adjust my camber so I don't wear out my innner tires. Or maybe these are different methods of adjusting front camber I have no clue.

Upper control arms, balljoints are all stock. Had my car dropped with h&r springs with tokico struts. Got a slight camber issue of course.

Any help is gladly appreciated.

Heres some pics to show you why I'm confused, and what i REALLY do need.

 

What exactly are the specs on your front alignment? Why do you need to adjust camber?

I used to have H&R Sport springs on Koni shocks, then later went even lower on Ground Controls, and I've never had a camber kit.

Most likely you just need to get an alignment and have them set the toe to zero all around.

 

I already did a toe adjustment the last time I was at the shop. The problem is, is that my camber is so bad, that the sensors can't read eachother from tire to tire in the front. The Tire is at such a diagnol, the sensors in the sensors (on the wheel) point to the ground, or just barely miss eachother.

The inside of my front tires is going bald, therefore I had to rotate tires. Forgot what side is negative and positive side of tire.

I need to know what items to buy for Front Camber Adjusting, thats all I need to know.

 

You sure it wasn't the front bumper cover blocking the beams between the sensors?

How low are you anyway? I used to run nearly -3* front camber, and when my buddy aligned my car on a Hunter rack, the sensors had no problem reading each other... as long as I had the front bumper removed.

 

I already did a toe adjustment, all I had to was lift the vehicle up some, because the bumper wasn't the issue.

When you lift the vehicle up some, the tire starts to hang and sag in, pointing under car.

Thats how we got the wheel straight. Dunno how much the drop, about 1.5-2in

But the fact remains, my edge of tires, are going bald.

All I need to know is what camber kit to use. Thanks tho

 

I don't want to suggest a camber kit, because I don't think that's your problem, and I want to save you from spending money on parts not needed.

So what you're saying is that you adjusted your toe and got the wheels pointed straight ahead while the suspension is drooping down? If so, that's exactly why your tires are wearing so badly. Alignments must be done with the full weight of the car on the suspension, because toe changes as the suspension moves through its range of motion.

If you set the toe with suspension at full droop, it's WAY off when the car is on the ground.

With a moderate drop (like in your case), camber is almost never a problem if the toe is set properly, unless your car has frame damage resulting in much more negative camber than you'd normally have. In that case, using a camber kit should be a temporary fix until you can get the frame straightened, or even better, find another car with a frame that hasn't been damaged in a collision.

Sorry but I can't recommend any particular type of camber kit. They each have their own set of problems and issues that you have to deal with when installing and using them.

 

No matter what you do, if you drop your car below stock heigth, your camber will go out of wack with a stock nonadjustable control arm and balljoint and etc. Thats a fact.

No frame damage.

Toe only sets left and right position, "from back and front of tire(of treading)".

Camber sets, left and right positon, "from top and bottom"

Big difference there bud. Instead of trying to make me spend more money on things I don't need, a camber kit is actually inexpensive compared to the thigns you just mentioned.

As I said before, only need help with camber kit.

Oh just to mention my camber isn't bad out of wack, but its enough to bald the side of my inner side tire, and if you stand from a distance you can tell the tire is sticking out more from the bottom. hence the sensor not reading eachother when you mount it on the tire

And for info, the tires were still toucvhing the ground, I CAN READ a computer screen, and it was only slight off, but still in the GREEN, like -5, or +5 when I brought back down the car


Modified by RanCRX at 10:14 AM 10/16/2007


Modified by RanCRX at 10:16 AM 10/16/2007

 

Patrck's info is on the money, there is no doubt about it.

You got your alignment set without the car at static ride height. Simply because the tires were in contact with the ground does not mean that the car was at static ride height, meaning that after you align it, the tires will again be out of alignment when you fully lower the car down. It explains the tire wear, and why you don't need a camber kit.

If you simply have to get a camber kit, I'd go with the ingalls ones.

 

camber AND toe change when you change ride height.

its the toe that caused your tire to wear unevenly. thats a fact.

 

This was my car on Ground Controls. About -2.7* camber in the front, no problems with alignment sensors reading each other.

Tire wear was minimal, and I got 30K miles out of a set of Yok ES100's, no camber kit.

Actually, if a set of alignment sensors can't read each other unless the camber is straight up zero, then that's an extremely poorly-designed alignment machine.

 

Ah crapp, I was gonna edit something and I deleted the whole dang thing....man


Ok, since it seems you guys don't wanna understand and more worried about being right. This is not about whos right or wrong.

I've been through steering suspension class, and I worked at a few shops dealing with alignments steering, and suspension, and of course I only had this problem with my vehicle, sicne is lowered.

Although I never had to get a camber kit on my vehicle, but this is my first honda, and I love it, and I wanna take care of it. I got some Falken Azenis tires and I wanna take care of them too.

My readings aren't bad, they are from -5 degrees, to +5, inbetween those two. I can get it to 0, but it ain't gonna make much difference as its green.

Everyone knows that adjusting toe on a vehicle is very easy, all you do, is unlock the lock nut on the innerr tie rod end threading, then adjust with a wrench on the inner tie rod end, which screws in and out of the outter tie rod end which only brings in or out from the side of the tire, it does not pull from the top, nor does it pull from the bottom. Until you hit 0 Well for this car and many others.

If I were to put all stock spring and struts. and set it to the same alignment I have right now. How much you wanna bet I do not have any more tie wear on the edge of the inner tire.

Thats all I'm trying to point out.

But I will go and adjust to 0, and when I go to tell my 30 years exp teachers ASE certified Honda/GM etc what you guys just told me, they will laugh at me.

Tie rod ends, do not adjust top and bottom of tire, only side to side.


Modified by RanCRX at 11:53 AM 10/16/2007


Modified by RanCRX at 12:04 PM 10/16/2007

 

Oh yeah, you guys are right about the lifting part, but what I eman is when i brought it back down, somehow the sensors read eachother, I forgot the reasdings but they were inbetween -5 degrees and +5.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RanCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, since it seems you guys don't wanna understand and more worried about being right. This is not about whos right or wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, youre the one who's not understanding.

to answer your question. buy the first kit you showed. most reliable one available.

but theres not a lot of room to add camber in the positive direction with a CRX before the A arm hits the fender frame.


Modified by Tyson at 1:54 PM 10/16/2007

 

Just because a teacher told you something doesnt mean they are right.

Its physics, when a tire rolls straight down a road there is very little friction, if there is some negative camber to that tire but still rolls dead straight(ZERO TOE) down a road there is very little friction, nothing more than a Tire with ZERO CAMBER. Tell that to your teacher if he laughs at you.

Answer me this........Are your teachers the ones that taught you how to do an Alignment on a car that is not at static ride height?

There are alot of ppl out there that are hard headed about info. they ask for some advice on certain things and ppl offer advice to help them understand. yet these hard headed guys never try and actually understand what others tell them.

 

umm I don't think anyone ever insinuated that adjusting the outer tie rods affects camber. Yes I know that adjusting toe affects which direction the tire points, and camber is the angle the tire tilts with respect to the ground, but what I'm saying to you is that your tire wear problems are almost surely associated with having out-of-spec toe.

And what is this -5 and +5? Is that like -.05 (five hundreths) degrees? I hope so because the specified toe range is less than one degree probably on any car.

 

I understand what you guys are saying completely.

But what you guys don't understand is when I go behind the vehicle and look from the ( Rear)back tire which is in good alingment, then match up the (front) front tire, you can see the bottom of the front tire sticking out as the top part of the tire disappears in, but only slightly.

No it was my half-fast idea to lift it up, I wasn't expecting accurate adjustment, and I had to take it off the rack as other people were waiting on me. (I had to align it cause it was bad, but now its alot better)

Well of course its not 5, I'm talking about its in the green. Not 5.00. Green is good, Red is bad.

But don't worry I took your guys info to consideration, but its just not the 100% fact of my problem here.

Its really 50/50 on both of our sides. But I'm very damn appreciative for your all response, don't take this as an arguement.

I wish you guys were here to check it out, and show me the probs. Thats whats fustrating me right now, is I don't have anyone atm moment to help me. Probably be a little while before I get it back on the rack.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RanCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understand what you guys are saying completely.

But what you guys don't understand is when I go behind the vehicle and look from the ( Rear)back tire which is in good alingment, then match up the (front) front tire, you can see the bottom of the front tire sticking out as the top part of the tire disappears in, but only slightly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

we understand that. we're saying, thats NOT a big deal.

its the less perceptible toe misalignment that is the problem. its much more sensitive to tire wear.

 

Is it a possibility since I haven't changed my innter tie rod ends, and rack end busing that it would push it out more like that?

I got all the parts, besides the lock washers I need for inner tie rod end.

I replaced both axles and outer tie rod ends, and still get a shake at steering wheel

 

Oh I see. Well geez, its not like everyday I see peoples front tires tilted little from their rear tires

But lets say my camber is bad, how well i adjust it without having any adjustable control arm or ball joints?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RanCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it a possibility since I haven't changed my innter tie rod ends, and rack end busing that it would push it out more like that?

I got all the parts, besides the lock washers I need for inner tie rod end.

I replaced both axles and outer tie rod ends, and still get a shake at steering wheel</TD></TR></TABLE>

whats possible is that if you have play in your tie rods or steering in general, then your alignment is going to be inaccurate since theres play in the suspension.


and besides, once you change the tie rod, you HAVE to get an alignment done again anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RanCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh I see. Well geez, its not like everyday I see peoples front tires tilted little from their rear tires</TD></TR></TABLE>

negative camber is NOT bad. its actually good and more useful than not having negative camber.

so therefore, your pursuit of an adjustable camber kit is worthless and not solving the real problem.

 

Hmm, yeah I see how I can get a little annoying. Just so much info I need to know

Well I'll get it in the rack and do it normally. FInd out a way to get the sensors to read without lifting up, I'll try the bumper thing again and etc etc.

And btw, I did get an alignment when changed tie rod ends, which was the time I did the lift thing lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RanCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But lets say my camber is bad, how well i adjust it without having any adjustable control arm or ball joints?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well than you cant adust without a kit. or some shim in the rear.

but who's to say its "bad"?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RanCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm, yeah I see how I can get a little annoying. Just so much info I need to know

Well I'll get it in the rack and do it normally. FInd out a way to get the sensors to read without lifting up, I'll try the bumper thing again and etc etc.

And btw, I did get an alignment when changed tie rod ends, which was the time I did the lift thing lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

what the hell kind of rack cant read the toe without "lifting up" the car or what not?

as probably said before, when you change the ride height, you change all the alignment specs. so therefore any reading not at full rest is completely inaccurate and unuseful.

 

It's probably the bumper blocking the beams, as was the case when my buddy used to align my car on a Hunter rack.

These days I take it to a shop that does it the old school way, with no lasers. I don't have to drive up any ramps, remove any body parts, and the alignment is damn near perfect.

Another thing this place can measure is rolling toe, measured by blades sticking up in the floor that you drive the tires over, and a big needle beside the car moves to indicate rolling toe. If toe is off, it will actually show how much the tire scrubs as it rolls along the road. The laser alignment machines can't measure that.