Friend of mine runs the engine machine shop locally. We don't have any sport compact guys locally doing anything (except for me now). I told him about the "mini-me" conversion, and he said he'd like to work on the head and see what can be done. I don't know where to point him or what parts to get for him.

Here's the deal. I have a sad little Civic with a d15b1 in it. I'm doing the mpfi conversion on it, and a "Mini-me" conversion with the d16z6 vtec head.

Car is pretty much dedicated for drag racing. But I still might pop on down and get a soda in it from time to time. Let's say I don't want to spend more than a grand for stuff for the head.

I'm doing nothing to the block or bottom end. This is just whatever he can do with the head.

This is what I have, and what we're fooling around with, so don't start by telling me to get a different engine... ...lol...

IDEAS? I hate to turn down free machine work when it comes my way. I was actually just planning on plopping the stock head on there. So this will be a nice bonus.

Bigger valves? (part numbers)
springs, retainers?
Cams? (even necessary with vtec?)

I have no idea where to point him.

Any help is MUCH appreciated.

 

If HE doesnt know what to do to get you some more HP, maybe he shouldnt be the one doing the work.

 

You beat me to it, shouldn't the machinist be suggesting some ideas of his own?

 

the most i would ask for is a valve job, considering he knows what hes doing.

 

The guy knows what he's doing, what he doesn't have is Honda related parts or know where to get them.

If you're handy with a flow bench, you're handy with a flow bench. a single V8 head is working 4 cylinders... just like my little Honda head.

So you guys have no idea where to get larger valves that require the head to be machined, crap like that? The guy knows what to do, doesn't stock the parts, and being he is doing this for free, it's my job to scrounge up whatever should be mated to the head.

I'm not a machinist, don't speak his lingo. He just said ask some guys for a rough idea on who's stocking parts or known good starting points.

If I can walk in with say some crazy massive valves, springs and some other stuff that will work with some machining, THAT, is what i need. Stuff that is known to work on that head. And work with my situation and power numbers.

The part of the equation that is un-educated is me. But I'm trying to cross a very complicated hurdle. And am enjoying the journey. 2 days ago I didn't know how to do a dpfi to mpfi swap or a mini-me, that ain't stopping me from doing it anyway.

I'm just trying to take advantage of a SWEET OFFER.

Maybe I should just tell him to port what he's got and don't mess with anything else.

Look at it like a ZC 3rd-4th swap hybrid tranny. I found a shop that can do the work. I just need to scrounge up the parts. That's what I'm up against with the head.

I have a shop willing to do the work FOR FREE, I need to scrounge up some parts.

 

well... if he doesnt do honda's , then i wonder if he has cutters for our honda heads? if not then.. how can he do a good vj?

putting a bigger valve on that head isnt the first option usually... the whole motor should be taken into consideration and its use...


just thinkin out loud

 

I didn't say he didn't work on Honda heads. He doesn't get to "MODIFY", alter, or look for speed with Sport compact stuff. He gets to do a lot of basic "overhaul" work with that stuff. That's why he's interested. I've peaked his "fun factor, curiosity bone".

If I just wanted him to put a valve job on it, new guides, whatever, that's no big, it's what they do. He wants to fiddle with it. Do to it what they do with standard race car heads for the V8 boys.

I may not be explaining it well. I just need some ideas for parts. Appreciate your time.

You know where this is going to end up? I can see it now... I'm going to end up scrounging around on "Fleabay" pick up some stuff I'd have tried on a V8 head, it's gonna fail, I'm going to come on here and ask why, and people are going to flame me for not asking for advice in the first place... ...lol...

Like for instance something like this wopuld be nice to hear (made up scenario), "Yo, these are the biggest valves you can stuff in that head from Ferrea, we tried them, they worked excellent"...
HONDA CIVIC 1.6L - SOHC 16 VALVE (D16Z6-Y5-Y7-Y8) - 1992-2000
F1821P E 26 mm 5.46 mm 115.95 mm 1.9 mm 22º Flo. Stock size. Super Alloy
F1495P E 27 mm 5.46 mm 115.95 mm 1.9 mm 22º Flo. 1 mm oversize. Super Alloy
F1822P I 30 mm 5.48 mm 118.6 mm 1.9 mm 20º Super Flo. Stock size
F1494P I 31 mm 5.48 mm 118.6 mm 1.9 mm 20º Super Flo. 1 mm oversize

I'm just looking for a direction.


Modified by vectorsolid at 1:05 AM 10/6/2007

 

yes i get ur point...

and i still say getting the biggest valve isnt the end all be all here,

u stated ur starting with a d15 block..
switching to a z6 head, ur already 1mm bigger in valves compare to ur old d15 head

now for the camshaft, (yes u need it even if ur vtec) and u mentioned this is a dedicated drag car? well.. vtec conversion isnt really a race mod or upgrade,

if u wish to stick to vtec, there are quite a few options for u there,

Bisimoto- has sum good designs for the z6 heads (with regards to camshaft) including springs and retainers

crower- has sum good designs aswell.. including springs and retainers

but if ask me? i wud rather put in a d16a6 non vtec head on ur d15 block, keep it simple if its for drag use with occasional street use, and there are sum crazy non vtec cams availble from bisimoto too..

if u want part numbers for those things? i think u have to go and check their site or give them a call... im trying to help.. but im not about to go searching for sum1 else...
dont mean to be rude.. im trying to help...

and i hope this is being helpful to u man good luck with ur project too!

 

another thing i myt add,

on a mini-me,
the vtec head has 1mm bigger valves than the non vtec counter part,
and to make things more interesting, the intake valves are spaced farther apart, to make way for the vtec mechanism on the valvetrain,

so now the valves are 1mm bigger, and farther apart, if ur d15 is to run its current pistons? those valvepockets on those pistons are already quite far from where ur intake valves are, running bigger valves wud make things a little harder, specially if u wish to run a bigger camshaft,

without touching the block? i do believe u can get to only so high of a compression via head milling, bfor piston to valve contact occurs or even piston to head contact,

without being able to raise alot of compression i dont think the bigger valve on a big cam wud work to its full potential...

not trying detract u from ur plans, im just trying to give u a few heads up, based on my experience ,

ther are alot more knowledgeable peeps around here, and if they see fit to correct me in some of my statements, please do! im here to learn just like everybody else,
what ive mentioned are just based on my experience, thats what works for me.. and sum may be wrong or wud be worth disagreeing with.. and thats fine with me

 

If he wants to fiddle with the head go with the crower .5mm oversided intake/exhaust valves and get a larger cam with spring/retainers and have him open up the ports. Then if hes really feeling frisky you could also have him open up the IM and have him go to town to get it to flow as much as the head can handle in relation to the cam you choose. Also i recommend crower becasue i have used them with all of my motor builds and never had a problem.

Crower P/N
97404I-8
97404E-8
63443Z

 

how may honda heads has this guy had to re seat? just a question maybe you should ask. if he says none, i would walk away laughing.

 

I've seen many heads get toasted by people who port heads in "general".

 

good call...

but on a stock block? thats my worry hehe

 

i would just use oem parts. with that block and head combo ur not gonna make crazy power. and the whole valvespring and retainer idea might be pointless because your not going to make power way up high in the rpm band and the stock valve train should be save for some 7500-8k max revs. if anything just upgrade the springs for some piece of mind.

whats the compression ratio gonna be with that head on the block?

a stage 1 crower cam might be ur best bet but i wouldnt go much higher than that because i dont think ur gonna make the compression to actual utilize the larger cam.

just have him reseat the valves by doing a 3 angle valve job on the head and have him open up the ports and the bowls.

if ur getting an intake mani and throttlebody then just make sure that its all port matched. port match the head to the intake mani and the throttle body to the intake manifold.

maybe have him mill the head a lil bit to get you some more compression.

thats about it man, and dont be suprised with the outcome because ur not gonna pull crazy times in the quarter.

 

if the guy has never done a valve job or port work on a honda head then i wouldnt have him do anything. send it off for a simple performance valve job from brad, tom or don and be done with it. if he doesnt know the correct valve job angles he could do more damage than good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if the guy has never done a valve job or port work on a honda head then i wouldnt have him do anything. send it off for a simple performance valve job from brad, tom or don and be done with it. if he doesnt know the correct valve job angles he could do more damage than good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is true. i agree 100%

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if the guy has never done a valve job or port work on a honda head then i wouldnt have him do anything. send it off for a simple performance valve job from brad, tom or don and be done with it. if he doesnt know the correct valve job angles he could do more damage than good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No idea on who these guys are. Got links. We've got it worked out here, and I know more about what I'm gonna get done.

Basically, as it turns out today, the d15 is shot.... So, I can either pump money into a block that is about impossible to find parts for, and if you do, they're 3 times the money. OR, simply give up on the D, lick my wounds while all the D-series mini-me parts trickle in that I ordered, AND JUST DO A "B-SERIES" SWAP. easier to get parts, more of them out there, easier and cheaper power.

Although I kind of feel like I'm selling out my ideas of having fun with the d15. But basically, for what the d15 rods were, I can almost pick up the B-series swap, and I needed a 5 speed trans anyway, so that's another savings.

I HATE when noob guys talk about this big HP motor combo they've got worked out (and you later find out the whole engine swap revolves around the sale of video game console and the guy owns no tools...), but I have found, if you're actually going to do it, it does help to be honest with what you are thinking is going to happen. I've kind of decided I've got about a $7k budget to acquire the engine and trans, build the engine itself and acquire the turbo setup. I'd say that's pretty do-able. The turbo is the killer if you don't go the eBay route.... and I'm still tempted... But I don't think those eBay turbos are gonna hang together with 10-15psi of boost...lol.... More research on my end is still required. Plus, I'm trying to wrap around the Hondata stuff. It all takes time.

I also don't care if this motor doesn't last 10,000 miles (not because of poor parts, but abuse and entertainment), it's not a daily driver, pretty much a strip car that will see some minimal street time (alright, maybe I'm lying there too, probably a lot of tire spinning wheel time on the street, I just didn't want to sound irresponsible... heheh...). Heck I think for that kind of fun, if it only lasts one summer, I think I'd be quite happy. But if it's going to be one summer then I want a solid 400+ HP, and SOLID low 12's car. Talk is cheap.

I think this is going to work out for the best. Lot's to learn, lot's to get ordered.

I seriously appreciate all your time. you've help point me in some good directions.