here's my setup before I write about the issue i'm having.

pioneer 6800, ipod unit
Boston Acoustic 6.5 separates (top of the line from them, forgot the name)
2 JL 10W3v2's in a JL High output box
Rockford Punch 2 X 100 watt (front speakers)
JL 500/1 monoblock class D amp
1 Farret capacitor.

When I run the system about 3/4, the sub clip out. I have the sub control on the headunit set at about -12 or higher the bass will cut out....the gains on the amp are about half. I've noticed that it usually does so when the weather is hot. I thought the sub amp would be able to handle the waaay more than that.

What do you think it is?? Cooling issue? should i turn down the gain even more? i am an amatuer when it comes to sound. I used to run a system in another car and i had no problems whatsoever.

 

any suggestions for front speaker amp to match the quality of the JL amp.

 

How are the subwoofers wired up? Have you had this problem ever since the install or just recently? My guess is that the amp is overheating from clipping. Did you follow the gain setting tutorial on the JL website? It's farad, not farret or ferret.

Do you have the Boston Z6's? Budget on the amp?

 

Would have to know which 10W3v2 you have, D2, D4 or D6, and how they are wired.
The JL Audio slash series amps are not stable below 1.5 ohms.

Also what gauge power and ground cable are you using, how long are the power and ground leads, [where is the amp mounted], where and how is the ground lead connected, where is the cap grounded?

What kind of fuse and fuse holder is on the power cable?

Answer the above and I will have a better idea of what the problem may be.

My guess now, [because you say the gain on the amp is only about 1/2 way] would be a current problem or low impedance.

What LED(s), on the top of the amp, is/are on when the amp cuts out?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gunnerman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any suggestions for front speaker amp to match the quality of the JL amp. </TD></TR></TABLE> How about another JL Audio Slash series amp. 94

 

the JL amp has a thermal light (red) on it and also a yellow (low impedance) light on it. Are any of these going on when you crank the volume up? I know b/c i happen to own one as well

its stable between 1.5-4 ohms, and puts out a continuous true 500W @9-14 volts, that is the RIPS system (regulated intelligent power supply). ..i can't see a reason why the amp would be cutting out unless of temperature, impedance problems, or loose connections..how did you wire the subs up?

 

I dont mean to jack the thread at all, this is just a little side question, but does the THD raise on the JL 500/1 v2 with a lower impedence like other amps do?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imadigitalgod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont mean to jack the thread at all, this is just a little side question, but does the THD raise on the JL 500/1 v2 with a lower impedence like other amps do? </TD></TR></TABLE> Yes, THD increases at lower impedance's and the dampening factor decreases.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowSOHCvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its stable between 1.5-4 ohms, and puts out a continuous true 500W @9-14 volts, t</TD></TR></TABLE> That's 500W RMS @11V - 14.5V anything below 10V and the amp will turn off compleatly, including the green status light. 94

 

I believe the subs are are wired for 3ohm. I didn't wire the sub bought them from a store that went out of business. But it is the box that was manufactured by JL. It is their High output box. As far as wiring....i used 8 gauge from the battery terminal and put a fuse with 18 inches of the battery. Although i dont remember the rating of the fuse. A splitter was wired and then 10 gauge (power) to the amps. Ground uses the same gauge. The remote turn on was daisy chained amp to amp. maybe that could the problem. I am not sure how the capacitor is wired to the system. The reason being I started the system they had my brother's friend finish the job. That guy did some mickey mouse stuff...i hate having other people do the job. i'd rather do it myself to ensure quality. The front speaker were wired into the system by splicing into the existing stock wiring. which i did not like, only agreed to that because holes would have been drilled into the door. I have a 97 CL with the retarded stock Bose system or it had. The rear deck speakers are run off the internal amp of the headunit. I suspect a shotty wiring job. That car was a pain to do. When i get home from a trip this weekend I will check out the amp to see the lights on the JL amp.

As for a front speaker amp..i'm looking to spend $500 max. The front speakers a boston acoustic pro 60's. The rear deck's are the stock 6X9's. The tweeter placed in the stock location in the dash. I hope he used the crossovers provided with the speakers because i suspect he used the stock ones that are already prewired. The sound quality of the front speakers is not were it seems it should be..

 

amps are mounted in the trunk against the backseat. The subs are in a box in front of them....I believe the grounds about a foot away in the trunk.

How are JL amps in terms of front speakers? I know they are awesome for subs.

 

First, 10ga power wire is not thick enough for a 500/1, at that length you should be using 4ga power and ground for the 500/1 itself, it's probably the reason the amp is cutting out.

Also, when you get the 2 channel amp use the 8ga to power it, get rid of the splitter.

When I asked about the type of fuse, I did not mean what amperage, but what kind, is it an ANL, MINI WAFER, MAXI or AGU?... http://www.scosche.com/efx.aspx?CategoryID=57

Anyway, when you install the 4ga, use an ANL fuse.

JL Audio Slash series amps, [2 and 4 channel] are just as good for high-pass as the 1 channels are for low-pass.

The B/A PRO60 component speakers 125W continuous, and need all of that to perform at their best, and if installed and powered properly, [B/A x-over must be used] they sound great.

They are an over-sized 6.5" speaker, if I remember they need almost a 6" diameter mounting hole, I am pretty sure your CL had 5.25" stock speakers, so the question is, how were the B/As installed???
Keep in mind, the install of the speaker is critical to it's performance.

I would recommend the 300/4, [bridged into 2ch] for the front speakers, or even better the 450/4 and use ch1&2 for the front, [2x150W RMS] then bridge ch3&4, wire the rear stock 6x9s in series and connect them to the bridged ch3&4, [for rear fill].
Keep in mind you do not need rear speakers, you could just remove them.

I would be looking over the whole system to check everything that was done.

BTW, although a PITA, holes do not need to be drilled in the doors to get speaker wire into them, there are two good ways to do it, both are a fair amount of work, but with 125W speakers you really need 16ga wire to them. 94

 

For the amp, find something that puts out at least 200w per side @ 3 ohms. The JL amps will be underpowering them and the more headroom the better. Those Bostons love power. Used Phoenix Gold Xenon 200.2 or 200.4 to power your whole system (make their rated power and then some) or used Arc Audio 2500XXK.

The Xenon amp does 2 x 200w @ 1-4 ohms. I had a x600.1 which was rated at 600w but was actually tested around 850w. Internals are beefy and have cooling fans on top. The 2500XXK is top notch too. 2 x 270w @ 4 ohms, 2 x 525 @ 2 ohms, 1050w @ 4 ohms bridged. The Phoenix amps sells for around $250 and the Arc sells for around $350. Send me a PM if interested in the 2500xxk.

http://www.phoenixgold.com/2004/xenonamps.html
http://www.arcaudio.com/arc-05...0.htm

 

i misquoted the size the of the wire...4 gauge is used from the battery and then split into 8 gauge...i've used 8 gauge before with this much power in a system in another car so i know that it works. and yes the front speakers are 6.5's they are mounted in the stock location...do your homework before answering, go check on crutchfield's website. and yes you do need rear speakers to fill the back. It sounds horrible without rear speakers. IMO 2 separate amps will be cleaning than using one....the only benefit of running 4 channels would be for space and ease of wiring.

 

...do your homework before answering, go check on crutchfield's website. Yes teacher, I did teacher, the Boston Acoustic PRO 60 is designated as a 6.5" speaker, however they are an over-sized 6.5" speaker, the mounting diameter hole needs to be 5-13/16", mounting depth is 2-1/2", a standard 6.5" speaker, like in Honda/Acura, uses a 5" mounting diameter hole.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com...n.pdf

So the question is how is a speaker that needs a 5-13/16" diameter mounting hole, installed in a location that has a 5" diameter mounting hole, not that it can't be done, but if not done properly it may end up, "The sound quality of the front speakers is not were it seems it should be...

Well you seem to know all about car audio and what works and what does not, I have only installed a few thousand systems over the last 30 years and only 500-600 of them were demo and competition systems, so what the hell do I know

Good luck on your problem. 94

 

I was thinking the sound quality of the front speakers were affected by the amp..i had a mtx amp powering the front speakers before i switched to the punch amp...Do you think the stock wiring would give less optimal sound quality?

As soon as I have time i'm going to switch out the power wire for the JL amp. thanks for doing your homework!!

 

how would i be able to do the wiring with drilling the doors? There is a stock factory harness that connects to the doors...

btw i am using agu fuses

 

Yes, the amp will have an effect on the SQ of a speaker, so will the speaker wire, as wattage goes up, thicker wire will be needed to carry the higher current.
Also the speaker install has a huge effect on speaker SQ.

Without model numbers I can't give you an opinion of which amp is better between the MTX and the R/F Punch, IMO in general MTX makes better amps then R/F, however R/F has made some pretty good amps, and MTX has a few dogs.

AGU fuses are about the worst you can use, replace with an ANL fuse.
the problem with the glass AGU fuses is they have high resistance, so much so that they can get hot enough to melt the solder that connects the fuse filament to the end caps, to the point that the connection becomes poor, the fuse looks good, tests OK, but once under load contact is broken, [amp cuts out], not saying this is your problem, but if you came to my shop the first thing I would do is replace the fuse, [the main one and the the one in the splitter block] and try the system.

Have you looked and checked what indicator LEDs on the JL amp are on/off when amp cuts out yet.

I am still wondering how the front speakers are installed, as I said it is critical to speaker SQ that they are installed properly.

Getting speaker wire into the doors is a bit of a PITA, but can be done in the stock harness, [and should be, why would you drill holes].

http://www.preludezone.com/printthread.php?t=500
http://www.the12volt.com/insta...~PN~1

Answer the questions. 94

 

have you run your setup with out the cap. doubt you need it. i just talked to Kinetiks tech support this week asking them about alts and watts etc, they said, rule of thumb, you need about 70amps per 1000 watts, so unless youre running a tiny alt, youre probably screwin youself
http://www.kinetikpower.com

make sure youre using the right size wires and fuses, use the JL manual for reference

set your gains right... http://subwoofertools.com/forum/setgain.asp

realm has 0db tones in their download section http://www.realmofexcursion.com/

and double check your grounds and other connections

for amp.. US AMPS xt-1600.2 200x2 @ 4 ohms $259
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...Id=24

 

i currently do not have the amp...my friend was going to sell it. I checked the LEDs on the amp and none of the lights besides the power light goes on when it clips. it looks normal.

i do not know how the front speakers were mounted..i'd have to take off the door panels and check. How should they be mounted? I assumed they're mounted in the stock location...

I have never installed ANL so an online site outlining this would be helpful.

About the power wire size, i just remember that I used 8 gauge monster wire to power a 400 watt @ 2ohms?(2 channels bridged, rockford punch) to the same box mentioned above with no problems. That's why i assumed the same would be ok with this setup. maybe it was a fluke?

so i dont need a capacitor?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, the amp will have an effect on the SQ of a speaker, so will the speaker wire, as wattage goes up, thicker wire will be needed to carry the higher current.
Also the speaker install has a huge effect on speaker SQ.

Without model numbers I can't give you an opinion of which amp is better between the MTX and the R/F Punch, IMO in general MTX makes better amps then R/F, however R/F has made some pretty good amps, and MTX has a few dogs.

AGU fuses are about the worst you can use, replace with an ANL fuse.
the problem with the glass AGU fuses is they have high resistance, so much so that they can get hot enough to melt the solder that connects the fuse filament to the end caps, to the point that the connection becomes poor, the fuse looks good, tests OK, but once under load contact is broken, [amp cuts out], not saying this is your problem, but if you came to my shop the first thing I would do is replace the fuse, [the main one and the the one in the splitter block] and try the system.

Have you looked and checked what indicator LEDs on the JL amp are on/off when amp cuts out yet.

I am still wondering how the front speakers are installed, as I said it is critical to speaker SQ that they are installed properly.

Getting speaker wire into the doors is a bit of a PITA, but can be done in the stock harness, [and should be, why would you drill holes].

http://www.preludezone.com/printthread.php?t=500
http://www.the12volt.com/insta...~PN~1

Answer the questions. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by gunnerman at 10:25 PM 10/8/2007

 

If no other lights are coming on then the problem is a is an open circuit after to output of the amp, or a problem with the amp itself.

The speakers will be mounted in the stock location, but the stock location is designed to hold a standard 6.5" speaker, your speaker is an over-sized 6.5" speaker, the diff. is in the mounting hole diameter needed, stock is 5" your speaker needs almost a 6" diameter mounting hole.

The question is how did they get your speaker to fit the 5" hole?

There are some basic rules about mounting speakers..
1- Speaker has to be mounted to a flat surface, or basket can warp and misaligne the speakers VC.

2- Speaker needs an airtight seal around it to prevent front wave and rear wave from canceling each other and for cone "control"

3- Speaker need to be mounted to a solid surface, the more mass the better, or you will have cancellation, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

4- a speaker mounted to wood will sound better then that same speaker mounted to any other material, including plastic .

All the above have an effect on the SQ of a speaker, not fallowing the rules can also drastically shorten the life of the speaker.

The gauge of power and ground cable is directly related to the current the amp needs and how long the power lead needs to be.

You may or may not need a cap, it depends on a number of things, size of alt. being at the top of the list. 94

 

currently i am using the stock alternator...I used a capacitor because i had a system was approxiamately 650 watts in total power and it wore down the battery withing a year. Now i seem to have no battery issues on this currently system.

 

With just a stock alt. a cap can help a lot. 94