hi some of you may have read my thread on my oem b series build https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2108588 anyway i decided i would like to get even more power out of the motor ...i decided to pull the head for a little mill and possibly a portflow valvejob,i ordered a bpi velocity stack and i was going to try a thinner oil...
well upon disassembly of the motor i noticed some strange wear on the exhaust cam lobes(all of them),i continued to remove the cam and it appears my rocker arms(all of those as well) have been torn up as well...my intake cam looks completely fine...my question is what could have caused this?
my lash was set to skunk 2 recommendations(7,8) and my cam gears were +2,+3 the springs and retainers are from supertech and i must assume they are the stiffer spring rates since it was a turbo head
At first i was thinking maybe the vlave springs are too stiff but then i wondered why my intake cam is still perfect if that was the case...the motor still runs perfect as it should since it has maybe 200 miles on it but i would like to know why my cam is tearing up the rocker arms so that i may fix the issue and be done with it...
please if you have any insight out there lmk...thnx

here are some terrible pics ill try to get my buddy to snap a few better ones..my camera sucks














Modified by reactiondc2 at 8:53 PM 9/29/2007


Modified by reactiondc2 at 9:24 PM 10/1/2007

 

oil psi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM JEFFREY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oil psi</TD></TR></TABLE>if it was an oil pressure problem it seems to me like the cam journals would show signs of wear as well as the intake cam lobes

 

Valve lash? Bad LMA's?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by asubennett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Valve lash? Bad LMA's?</TD></TR></TABLE>lash was set to sk2 specs...if it was lma's then it seems like both cams would have been affected

 

Was this head ever completely disassembled before you assembled the motor?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Was this head ever completely disassembled before you assembled the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>not since ive owned it...i bought the head used from another member,it came off his running turbo car

 

Looks like you may need to replace the LMAs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like you may need to replace the LMAs.</TD></TR></TABLE>i was thinking that may be it as well but why then wouldnt the intake cam show the same signs of wear?

 

very common...retainer to guide seal....I will even bet money....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sheepey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very common...retainer to guide seal....I will even bet money....</TD></TR></TABLE>if the retainer was hitting the seal wouldnt the motor smoke like a freight train though...how many people out there are running supertech retainers that also run a bigger cam?im kind of curious if they have any problems like that

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sheepey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very common...retainer to guide seal....I will even bet money....</TD></TR></TABLE>

in for more info.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

in for more info. </TD></TR></TABLE>im going to try and remove the head later today(after seahawks get done beating the niners ) i think if the retainers are hitting the seals it will be fairly obvious once the springs are out

 

i would bet sheepey is right. the last pro 2s i degreed had R2VS problems. we shaved the retainers .015, we needed i think around .010 for clearance. pro 1s lift is .496 and pro 2s are .504. this was a bone stock head too.
just some food for thought.
edit: i wouldnt know why this would add wear to the cam though. so maybe my post makes no sense.


Modified by 1 2 NV at 3:30 PM 9/30/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would bet sheepey is right. the last pro 2s i degreed had R2VS problems. we shaved the retainers .015, we needed i think around .010 for clearance. pro 1s lift is .496 and pro 2s are .504. this was a bone stock head too.
just some food for thought.
edit: i wouldnt know why this would add wear to the cam though. so maybe my post makes no sense. </TD></TR></TABLE>im wondering what the lift on the non vtec lobe is because they are showing the same wear as the vtec lobes

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would bet sheepey is right. the last pro 2s i degreed had R2VS problems. we shaved the retainers .015, we needed i think around .010 for clearance. pro 1s lift is .496 and pro 2s are .504. this was a bone stock head too.
just some food for thought.
edit: i wouldnt know why this would add wear to the cam though. so maybe my post makes no sense. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What springs/retainers where used?

- Derek

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What springs/retainers where used?

- Derek</TD></TR></TABLE>supertech

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reactiondc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im wondering what the lift on the non vtec lobe is because they are showing the same wear as the vtec lobes</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What springs/retainers where used?

- Derek</TD></TR></TABLE>

pro series springs retainers. 1 of them was .010 different (thinner) in thickness than the other 15.

 

the head is apart and the seals look perfect,no signs of contact from the retainer

 

you see all these aftermarket cams are usually more than 460 lift right? Well a STOCK head im talking no work on the guide usually bottoms out around .450...and thats no bs. Ive checked like 4 STOCK heads and it bottoms out around .450-.460. And You say it would start smoking because it would ruin the seal right? Well not all the time Ive seen it happen many times.

Reason why I dont try to explain anymore is because when I do, they dont listen , so why bother? Ask Robert Martin, he'll tell you.....Good luck -- Alex

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sheepey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you see all these aftermarket cams are usually more than 460 lift right? Well a STOCK head im talking no work on the guide usually bottoms out around .450...and thats no bs. Ive checked like 4 STOCK heads and it bottoms out around .450-.460. And You say it would start smoking because it would ruin the seal right? Well not all the time Ive seen it happen many times.

Reason why I dont try to explain anymore is because when I do, they dont listen , so why bother? Ask Robert Martin, he'll tell you.....Good luck -- Alex</TD></TR></TABLE>what retainers though...dont most aftermarket retainers give you a little more room? its just hard to believe that a retainer can bottom out hard enough to kill a cam and rockers yet show no visible signs of damage on a rubber seal...thanks for your insight though

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reactiondc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what retainers though...dont most aftermarket retainers give you a little more room? its just hard to believe that a retainer can bottom out hard enough to kill a cam and rockers yet show no visible signs of damage on a rubber seal...thanks for your insight though </TD></TR></TABLE>

Most aftermarket retainers give you more clearance, but not enough for those big cams. Ive checked heads with skunk2 valvetrain and supertech. One of my backup heads has supertech with completely stock everything else and it bottomed out at .462. So since I needed more clearance I just did a valvejob on it aswell. Rip the head off, and have it checked...you'll see thats the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sheepey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Most aftermarket retainers give you more clearance, but not enough for those big cams. Ive checked heads with skunk2 valvetrain and supertech. One of my backup heads has supertech with completely stock everything else and it bottomed out at .462. So since I needed more clearance I just did a valvejob on it aswell. Rip the head off, and have it checked...you'll see thats the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>the head is off and apart...goin to the machine shop tomorrow for a light mill and ill have them check that as well...how much lift is on the small lobe because there is alot of wear on those as well...is it really enough to bottom out the retainer pre vtec

 

couldnt you just measure the cam journal, vtec lobe, the primary lobe and times it by 1.5 which i think is hondas factory rocker ratio then find the difference. does that make any sense. this of course would be for the average guy that doesnt have a cam degree fixture. just use a simple dial caliper.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">couldnt you just measure the cam journal, vtec lobe, the primary lobe and times it by 1.5 which i think is hondas factory rocker ratio then find the difference. does that make any sense. this of course would be for the average guy that doesnt have a cam degree fixture. just use a simple dial caliper.</TD></TR></TABLE>i think im gonna pick up a degree kit now that im going to mill the head...after i get that we will see how it goes