Got my block align honed, picked out my bearings, laid in the crank, and torqued down my mains. Let it sit 2 nights and checked breakaway torque and its right within spec, no problems spinning. Threw in rod/piston assembly and rechecked breakaway, no problems found.

So I start assembling the rear cover/seal, oil pump, baffle, oil pickup, pan, yada yada. I recheck breakaway and its freakin 45 ft/lb (up from 10 ft/lb which is spec). So I work my way backwards and start removing stuff and I loosen the oil pump bolts and now breakaway is 30 ft/lbs. I remove the pump altogether and its back to spec (8 ft/lb).

I put the pump back on and noticed that there is no clearance on the top half between the crank and oil seal, and there is clearance on the bottom half between crank and oil seal.

So could the align hone cause my crank to move up fractions of an inch, enough to see this happen?

 

It happened to me. The oil pump and the input shaft of the transmission would no longer line up properly. The center line of the crank had moved up too high. The block was junk

 

I had a block align honed when the breakaway was around 50 ft-lbs and I couldn't get the main bearing clearances I was after, I never experienced any issues after the align hone was done though.

It is known that if alot of material is removed from the block that it could leave the oil pump offset enough to cause problems, although I have never actually seen a case where this has happened in a Honda motor.

 

So what are my options now? I can't really see myself starting a new block, unless I really have to. This is an ongoing project from hell for just under 2 years.

What do you suggest?

 

maybe drill out the holes on the pump so it has a little leway

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .CUBISH. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe drill out the holes on the pump so it has a little leway</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dont do this.

Ask b19coupe what the final result of his adventure was.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Dont do this.

Ask b19coupe what the final result of his adventure was.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah if it doesnt line up and tourqe like it suppose to from the factory no bandaid is gonna help,just trash it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .CUBISH. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe drill out the holes on the pump so it has a little leway</TD></TR></TABLE>

That won't solve the input shaft side for the tranny. I PM'd b19, thanks for your replies.

 

sounds like the block is junk sir

 

Would you mind posting his result, just so we have a reference for the future? I'm assuming the answer is "throw it in the trash" but just in case it isn't, others will appreciate the assistance

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MARVNVRAM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That won't solve the input shaft side for the tranny. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The V8 stuff I've worked with uses oversized offset dowels.Someday I'll make some jigs to correct the pump and tranny dowels.

 

its junk. gonna go talk to my machine shop

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The V8 stuff I've worked with uses oversized offset dowels.Someday I'll make some jigs to correct the pump and tranny dowels.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do you get the alignment correct? Eyeball? Obviously you would also have to enlarge the bolt holes for the transmission and oil pump. After sinking a grand or so into a sleeved block, a kit that would save a block with a bad align bore would be a worthwhile investment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How do you get the alignment correct? Eyeball? Obviously you would also have to enlarge the bolt holes for the transmission and oil pump. After sinking a grand or so into a sleeved block, a kit that would save a block with a bad align bore would be a worthwhile investment.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What I have done before is make a drill jig off an uncut block that locates off the main line.Then drill/ream the dowel holes on the align bored block oversized and use a stepped dowel with the new size on one end and the original size on the other.You may need to drill the bolt holes on the pump or tranny oversized if its way off.
I've started a materials list and should have a jig done in a couple off weeks.As soon as I get it done I'll post and go from there.

 

A man with a plan!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What I have done before is make a drill jig off an uncut block that locates off the main line.Then drill/ream the dowel holes on the align bored block oversized and use a stepped dowel with the new size on one end and the original size on the other.You may need to drill the bolt holes on the pump or tranny oversized if its way off.
I've started a materials list and should have a jig done in a couple off weeks.As soon as I get it done I'll post and go from there.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've got a better idea that can cure the misaligment of the rear main seal the front snout seal. That is even simpler and more foolproof. .

Please no PM's though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I've got a better idea that can cure the misaligment of the rear main seal the front snout seal. That is even simpler and more foolproof. .

Please no PM's though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK...I understand you got tired of answering the same question over and over again through the years.When I first started looking at this forum I enjoyed reading and learning from your posts.But why do you still bother to post with stuff like this.If you don't want to tell any one what you know than why bother posting like this? If you read your pm's I would have asked what this post was all about that way.If you have an idea that could save me the work of making a jig I would be really interested in hearing it.Feel free to pm me if you don't want it posted on here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

OK...I understand you got tired of answering the same question over and over again through the years.When I first started looking at this forum I enjoyed reading and learning from your posts.But why do you still bother to post with stuff like this.If you don't want to tell any one what you know than why bother posting like this? If you read your pm's I would have asked what this post was all about that way.If you have an idea that could save me the work of making a jig I would be really interested in hearing it.Feel free to pm me if you don't want it posted on here.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just send him your credit card details I am sure you will get a reply then
Regards Dyno Dave

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dyno Dave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just send him your credit card details I am sure you will get a reply then
Regards Dyno Dave</TD></TR></TABLE>

And if that's his thing I have no problem.

 

I think he is trying to say a new block is the answer...

Sorry to hear about your luck. I would just locate another block and start fresh. having such major alignment problems at the heart of your engine will only cause more problems down the road on the build.
like you said. trans not lining up oil pump not lining off...nothing but headaches..

new block is cheaper,easier,and you wont have any more surprises as you build.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

OK...I understand you got tired of answering the same question over and over again through the years.When I first started looking at this forum I enjoyed reading and learning from your posts.But why do you still bother to post with stuff like this.If you don't want to tell any one what you know than why bother posting like this? If you read your pm's I would have asked what this post was all about that way.If you have an idea that could save me the work of making a jig I would be really interested in hearing it.Feel free to pm me if you don't want it posted on here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

same thing he did a long time ago with posting a build dyno with incredible numbers but refused to release the specs of the engine.

My block mains are getting an align hone done as we speak. hopefully i dont run into this problem

 

So the shop is taking care of the situation. Has anyone used a Golden Eagle block like this one here: http://shopping.lightningmotor...age=1
How thick are the sleeves? And is that a block guard i see?

I'm thinking of getting this after they pay me for the damage done.

 

you wont go wrong with GE

 

well, i know its an extremely rare case....lol...but a friend of mine was sent a blueprinted block from GE with the pistons installed wrong. intake = exhaust = bent valves

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, i know its an extremely rare case....lol...but a friend of mine was sent a blueprinted block from GE with the pistons installed wrong. intake = exhaust = bent valves </TD></TR></TABLE>

was talking bout theyre machine work, have never tried an assembled block, nor do i want to that i know off. I've seen bad assembled blocks even from very reputable shops/companies its not like they are bad, but well **** happens