I have a 98 lude with koni spp3's and gc sleeves. I have already replaced the ground control supplied front upper urethane pillow mounts twice within 3 months. Do you guys with yellows and gc even use the gc supplied upper issolator? Does the isolator help keep the spring flatly seated on the perch? I just left the world of aluminum upper pillow mounts and nice to be back to the oem upper mounts My girl actually stopped complaining

 

Never had a problem with them on my Konis. The lip in the center of the spring isolator matched the inside diameter of the springs, so there was no other way they could sit than flat on the isolator. Did your setup look like this?

 

I just stuck mine on the stock isolators as the GC ones did not fit right in my stock top hats (97 Prelude SH) and it seems to sit fine. Maybe keep the stock isolators installed so they don't move around.

 

I should also add that my GC upper insulators did fit snugly inside the factory top hats. I didn't use the factory rubber insulators at all.

 

I've never had a problem with them on the GCs and skunk 2s coils.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I should also add that my GC upper insulators did fit snugly inside the factory top hats. I didn't use the factory rubber insulators at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was this on a Prelude? I know for a fact that the isolators that GC gave me didn't fit in the top hat. It was too small so it slid around the inside of the top hat.

 

nope, my pics above are from my 94 Integra's suspension.

 

yeah, that im not surprised at. preludes are definately bigger. GC let taht slip apparently.

any way to make OEM rubber prelude fit?

 

If you use the stock dust boot, per GC instructions on the Prelude, you won't have any issues.

I normally install the GC isolators with the stock spring isolators on the front, and without the stock spring isolators in the rear. However, I use the stock metal dust boot (cut per the instructions) on both front and rear. The dust boot is what keeps the isolator from moving around.

The 3 Preludes I've seen that didn't use the dust boot all had torn isolators on the front. Of all the GC installs I've done (7 or 8), none have had this problem. I have found that using the stock isolators on the front will deform the GC isolators over time since they're so soft. Perhaps the stock rubber isn't giving the urethane enough support?

I started doing one-off isolators out of 6061 for Koni/GC installs on Preludes, and those seem to work better, IMO.

 

damn well I guess I'm going to have some torn isolators then I didn't follow the dust boot instructions, I just removed them all together

I guess I'll have to take a look and update this. I can't see them tearing though as they are jammed in the stock isolators and fit quite nice actually.

 

I don't know what everyone's problem is. I used some rubber steering rack boots for dust covers instead of stock metal, zip tied to the bump stops, and the GC spring isolators, not the stock rubber ones, and I never had problems. They were on my car for about 25K miles, and were fine when I took them off to sell the GC setup, except for a slight indentation in the polyurethane where the end of the spring wire was located.

 

can you show me a pic of how the prelude is different that it somehow utilizes the dust covers please.

from my experience, i never understood why GC wants you to even cut the stock metal dust covers since all they do is get in the way of the coilover sleeve.

perhaps what im guessing you mean is that the top portion of the dust cover helps keeps the GC isolator concentric because it fits inside the ID of the isolator.

a picture of that would clearly confirm this, or whatever it is you mean.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can you show me a pic of how the prelude is different that it somehow utilizes the dust covers please.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't have any pictures handy. I run Koni race shocks on my track car that use eyelet mounts, so I don't use this kind of setup personally.

EDIT: I forgot I had an unmodified spring cap in the garage, so I snapped a few quick pictures. See below.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from my experience, i never understood why GC wants you to even cut the stock metal dust covers since all they do is get in the way of the coilover sleeve. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's why the metal dust boot must be cut. If you leave it stock length, it'll hit the GC sleeve.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">perhaps what im guessing you mean is that the top portion of the dust cover helps keeps the GC isolator concentric because it fits inside the ID of the isolator. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That is correct. The Prelude dust boot actually fits fairly snug in the GC isolator. I've noticed that the isolators that come with the Prelude are very soft compared to the last GC setup I installed on a GSR. On the Prelude, the isolator does not fit snugly into the front spring cap like it does on the GSR. The isolator does fit snugly into the stock isolator on the front, however. If you look at a stock Prelude spring cap, you'll notice that the spring overhangs the opening in the middle of the spring cap by a fair amount. Also, the suspension geometry on the Prelude causes the spring to bow a bit at right height (you'll notice many Prelude owners complain of spring to threaded body contact on GC kits that use straight ERS springs, hence the reason why GC recommends their barrel shaped springs). From what I can see, these factors cause the isolator to shift under load, and the spring becomes unsupported on one section, causing the soft isolator to tear. The dust boot keeps this from occuring since it fits snugly into the isolator.

This doesn't appear to be as big of a problem in the rear since the opening in the spring cap is smaller, but there is nothing to positively locate the isolator, except the dust boot. The dust boot does not fit very snugly into the GC isolator on the rear, though. I usually buy another set of front dust boots.

That's why I started making isolators out of aluminum.

The rubbing issue is why I decided to go with an eyelet mount on my current setup. It allows the spring to pivot with the shock as the suspension goes from full droop to full compression. I haven't had any rubbing issues, even with 2.25" ID springs on my Konis. Note that the rubbing is not due to GC's design, but the design of the Prelude's upper spring mounts.


Modified by 117 at 4:06 AM 9/25/2007

 

I happen to have a spare stock front Prelude spring cap so I took a few pictures. The spring is a 1,200 lb/in 2.25 ID x 7" free length Hypercoil spring, so it's not exactly the same size spring that is included in GC kits, but hopefully it's close enough to get the point across.

I believe that without the dust boot, the spring shifts in the cap causing the isolator to tear where it's unsupported.

Spring next to cap. Notice the opening in the center of the cap is much larger than the ID of the spring.


Spring inside the cap. Notice there is nothing to positively locate the spring in the cap, other than the GC isolator, which is not included in this picture.


Spring moved to one side in the cap. Notice the unsupported area.


Here the spring is in the center of the cap, but I tilted it so you could see the unsupported portion close to the ID of the spring.


The GC isolators are probably a bit larger in OD than the spring, but not large enough that they fit snugly in the bare cap.

 

alright, so the top hat of the prelude is inherntly the issue then. it really isnt as much of an issue at all with civics, integras, and even my s2000.

the top hat looks tapered tho. i guess if the tops of the spring were ground perfectly and continuously flat, then it wouldnt be an issue, it would self center itself. i see thats exactly the problem, its not.

thanks for the pics. its clear now.

have you guys considered using those cone shaped metal thingys ive seen sold with cheap coilover kits. i THINK theyre only used for macpherson strut cars, im not sure. ive really never seen one used. just pictures of them alongside cheap coilovers.

 

Great. I'm going to jack the car up....maybe tonight and take a look. I hope the isolators are not ripped. I'm not using the dust boots.

Is there any reason to be worried if I'm not using the dust boots to keep the isolators positioned correctly? Or are the GC isolators fine sitting under the stock isolators?

 

I usually just make some isolators on my mini-lathe. I make the OD so that the isolator is held in position by the heads on the studs in the spring cap. To hold the isolators in place when the suspension is at full droop, I use some Hondabond. A bit ghetto, yes, but it actually works better than the GC isolators. I had installed a set on an ITS/H2 Prelude with SPSS3 Konis, and he had them for over 3 seasons without an issue.

 

sounds like if you cut the dust boot to just a half inch long it would be better to keep the isolator in place, if you have a prelude. if you dont have a prelude, like a civic or integra, i wouldnt worry at all about the dust boot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I usually just make some isolators on my mini-lathe. I make the OD so that the isolator is held in position by the heads on the studs in the spring cap. To hold the isolators in place when the suspension is at full droop, I use some Hondabond. A bit ghetto, yes, but it actually works better than the GC isolators. I had installed a set on an ITS/H2 Prelude with SPSS3 Konis, and he had them for over 3 seasons without an issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was this on a car that you raced? Did the isolators you made make a lot of noise at all?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like if you cut the dust boot to just a half inch long it would be better to keep the isolator in place, if you have a prelude. if you dont have a prelude, like a civic or integra, i wouldnt worry at all about the dust boot.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I have a prelude and I don't use the dust boots but I think I still have them. For now I have the GC isolators sitting inside the stock isolators to fit better. They seemed to fit very well but now I don't know I do have some creaking noises when going over speedbumps so I'm not sure if it's the UCA bushings that are making noise or if it's the springs themselves. No noise in the rear at all.

 

Another problem is that the isolators on the GSR I worked on were very stiff. Almost like a stiff composite material. The Prelude isolators are very very soft. Like pencil eraser soft (or even softer), so I think that makes the problem worse.

On my car, I had the isolators on when it was a street car. I never noticed any noise, but I had a fairly loud exhaust (GReddy PE). On my friend's race car, there was so much other noise, he couldn't have noticed any additional noise from aluminum isolators. I never used the aluminum isolators on my car once it became a dedicated track car.

 

now youre saying theyre different?

hmmm...

are they the same shape as the civic integra ones?

 

I don't think I ever said they were the same. If I did, I mispoke. I believe they're the same shape, but the Prelude isolators are much softer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've noticed that the isolators that come with the Prelude are very soft compared to the last GC setup I installed on a GSR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

The isolators I got were really floppy as well. They were just as soft if not softer than the stock ones.

Stupid question: For some reason I can't remember but if I jack the car up and the springs are not loaded anymore, do I need to get an alignment once I drop it back to the ground?

 

No you won't need an alignment unless you change the ride height.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No you won't need an alignment unless you change the ride height.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I thought, I just wasn't 100% sure

I'll try and take a look to see what shape the GC isolators are in when I get home tonight. I've been driving on them for one summer so far so we'll see.