Hello,
As far as I know, the 98 Octane deliver more power than using the 95 Octane that in the Euro and Jap model. Same in US, ECUs are programmed to handle less Octane say 91, I am not sure what is the maximum available Octane in US, maybe 94 or 93. Still if I put Octane booster will it give me more power or the ECU is programmed to deliver the most power at such Octane level and that's it. In other words, if I put higher Octane, the ECU will not let the engine adapt to that and hence will not deliver more power on the other hand it might ruin the engine's performance.
Can anyone help me in this topic ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hello,
As far as I know, the 98 Octane deliver more power than using the 95 Octane that in the Euro and Jap model. Same in US, ECUs are programmed to handle less Octane say 91, I am not sure what is the maximum available Octane in US, maybe 94 or 93. Still if I put Octane booster will it give me more power or the ECU is programmed to deliver the most power at such Octane level and that's it. In other words, if I put higher Octane, the ECU will not let the engine adapt to that and hence will not deliver more power on the other hand it might ruin the engine's performance.
Can anyone help me in this topic ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

First off, you're completely wrong.

The Japenese and Euro S2K's do not run on a higher octane than the U.S. Specs, you're just confused.

Secondly, do you even understand how an octane rating works? running a higher octane does not mean your car goes faster
The highest "pump gas" you can purchase in the U.S. is 94 AKI.

Thirdly, Octane booster is a joke.

 

So this is all wrong. mm.. So why do you put say Octane 94 instead of 89 in your car for example ? Can you give me brief explanation?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So this is all wrong. mm.. So why do you put say Octane 94 instead of 89 in your car for example ? Can you give me brief explanation?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Octane rating is a measure of detonation resistance, not deflagration characteristics.

You would be wasting money putting 94 octane into a car that runs on 87 or 91.

you're confusing the ability of the fuel to resist compression detonation as opposed to the ability of the fuel to burn, which is combustion. However, premium grades of gasoline often contain more energy per gallon due to the composition of the fuel as well as increased octane.


So simply, just about everything you said in your topic statement was horribly incorrect.

 

So, for the S2000 what do you recommend?
Thank you in advance

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, for the S2000 what do you recommend?
Thank you in advance</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, what does the owners manual (honda) recommend? 91 AKI.

seriously, you could run 87 If you wanted to, and it would not hurt the car. The S has an anti-knock sensor.

Where you buy your gasoline, in my opinion, is much more important than the octane rating of the fuel.

 

Thank you,
100000 times.
Do you have MSN, gmail or any other chat address to chat?

 

By the way I just read this article. It say something about the HP Octane relation, you might like to read it a little
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm

 

A friend was putting 93 in a single cam civic and it caused an injector backup and had to have his whole fuel system replaced. Use gas that's too high octane causes carbon build up because your car can't burn it.

And I was reading that the Euro models run on 98octane, the JDM models also have a 11.5CR, but I haven't heard what gas they use.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Techno Tonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well, what does the owners manual (honda) recommend? 91 AKI.

seriously, you could run 87 If you wanted to, and it would not hurt the car. The S has an anti-knock sensor.

Where you buy your gasoline, in my opinion, is much more important than the octane rating of the fuel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wrong.

first off, a little bonus throttle response is better because the ignition timing is different.
second, the difference between 87 and 91 octane will make the engine knock, the difference between 91 and 95 octane will really do nothing unless you are tuned for that timing.
Why would the manual say run 91? because its the safest thing for the engine.
The $1 you might save per fillup is not worth it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shy_GuyAP1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A friend was putting 93 in a single cam civic and it caused an injector backup and had to have his whole fuel system replaced. Use gas that's too high octane causes carbon build up because your car can't burn it.

And I was reading that the Euro models run on 98octane, the JDM models also have a 11.5CR, but I haven't heard what gas they use.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Euro models run 95 RON (90-91 AKI). It's a different form of measurment for octane, just like the use litres and we use gallons.

98 RON is roughly equivilent to 93-94 AKI, which is the highest we use here

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LAS2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

wrong.

first off, a little bonus throttle response is better because the ignition timing is different.
second, the difference between 87 and 91 octane will make the engine knock, the difference between 91 and 95 octane will really do nothing unless you are tuned for that timing.
Why would the manual say run 91? because its the safest thing for the engine.
The $1 you might save per fillup is not worth it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

wrong.

you can safely use 87 octane for daily driving the S. running 87 in the S will not cause it to knock.

Running lower octain fuel will not damage or hurt your engine. S2K engines have knock sensors that will detect detonation or knock/pinging and will instantly retard timing to compensate. The end result is a slight reduction on power, and increased fuel consumption.

Why would honda reccomend 91? Because the ECU is tuned to run on 91 octane.

That's the plain truth whether people want to believe it or not. Running regular gas (87) is not harmful at 11:1 NA compression. Now drop 1 bar of boost on that and you could have issues (1 bar is one atmosphere of pressure, about 12 psi depending on where you live).

On a stock S2000 running regular 87 octane probably wouldn't show on a dyno and appear as normal variation. The ECU will map back the timing if it detects knock (that's IF not when). So long as the ECU can ratchet back the timing enough to compensate (and it can) there is no problems with it. It's not cleaner, more environmentally friendly, fuel efficient or anything of the sort; it's gas.

 

wrong. I win again. read this.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A Honda knock sensor is a modified microphone that only has enough sensitivity to detect PRE-ignition or knock up to 4000 rpm. After this point, it can't distinguish between regular engine noise as the motor revs from knocking and so it only acts as an idle/partial throttle detector and then instructs the ECU to retard the base ignition timing map program at these rpms BEFORE it can get ugly up in the higher rpms. Once detonation occurs, it is too late: the horse is out of the barn.

_______

Detonation; Knock; Ping; Pre-igintion. You hear these terms mentioned all the time, so we might as well straighten them out.

Let's get pre-ignition out of the way first. Nothing mysterious about it. The A/F mixture (intake charge) explodes before the spark plug fires. You would figure the intake charge would have to get pretty hot to do that, and you would be right. The pressure from a high compression engine is enough to generate that kind of heat. (In fact, diesel engines are designed to fire on the heat from compression alone.) Higher octane fuel is the antidote, so in general, a higher compression engine will need higher octane fuel.

Cramming more intake charge into the combustion chamber has the same effect as raising compression, so in general, the higher your boost, the higher the octane requirement to avoid pre-ignition. Finally, premature inflagration occurs more easily if the intake charge is hot when it enters the engine. This is why larger intercoolers add a margin of safety in forced induction engines--at least until you turn up the boost.

Another cause of pre-ignition is a hot spot in the engine. Maybe some of those carbon deposits are glowing red hot. Maybe the spark plug itself is hot enough to ignite the mixture before firing. This is almost certainly the case if you have ever experienced a car that kept trying to run after you turned the key off.

The more tricky term is "knock." Although most of us prefer to talk about "detonation," it turns out that "knock" is the correct term as used in automotive texts.

"Detonation" is actually slang, and "ping" is not a well defined term at all. That having been said, I will stick with the term "detonation" for this discussion.

"Detonation" differs from pre-ignition in that it occurs AFTER the mixture starts to burn. Normal burning involves a flame front--a relatively slow, controlled explosion--which marches along in a calculated fashion. As you would expect, normal burning raises the pressure in the combustion chamber. Sometimes this is enough to get the last bit of intake charge (called the "end gas") so excited it explodes before it is supposed to. It is a very hot explosion, on the order of ten times the heat of controlled combustion.

But there is more to it than that.

If you graph the amount of pressure in a combustion chamber during normal burning, it shows a relatively smooth event. The occurrence of detonation shows up as a sharp spike on the graph--a sudden shock wave if you will, with pressures on the order of several thousand psi. The duration and strength of the explosion is too fast to contribute to the rotational output of the engine. Like a slap in the face, the full impact must be absorbed within the combustion chamber itself. Damage is most likely to occur at the weakest points--namely the piston pin and piston crown. Piston engines designed for high stress situations can have the piston rings further away from the crown of the piston. The shock of repeated detonation will eventually weaken anything it can, and the heat generated will take care of the rest.

_______________


High octane gasoline burns slower than low octane gasoline. The slow burn prevents engine knock when cylinder pressures are high.

Octane is a measure of a fuel’s tendency to knock or ping when it is mixed with
air and burned in the cylinder of an engine. This octane rating is not based on the amount of chemical octane in the gasoline. The rating is called octane because the gasoline’s ability to prevent engine knock has been rated against the performance of pure hydrocarbon octane, which has a rating of 100. Gasoline, which is made from a blend of many other hydrocarbons, may have a higher or lower rating,
depending on how its anti-knock performance compares to the performance of pure hydrocarbon octane.

Situations that would warrant higher octane...

- high Compression Ratio

- advance ignition timing beyond stock

- big cylinder bores

- running with consistently higher coolant temps.

- running with leaner air fuel ratios

- dry humidity areas

- being closer to sea level

- during high barometric pressures

_________________________________________
Quote: Originally posted by Rick O'Donnell @ http://www.team-integra.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In many high-performance situations, riders clamor for higher octane fuels, thinking this will give them additional horsepower and, thus, an advantage over the competition.

But this is not the case -

adding higher-octane race fuel to your (car or) motorcycle may actually produce less horsepower. Here's why:

Octane, an arbitrary number which is calculated as the average the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON), and is only an indication of a fuel's sensitivity to knock, which is typically pressure-induced self-ignition. (Of these two ratings, MON is more applicable to racing fuels as it is measured under high load and high speed conditions.)

Octane, as you can see, is not a measure of how much power - or, more correctly, specific energy - is contained in a fuel. And remember that leaded high-octane race fuels burn slower than most unleaded fuels, and may reduce performance in stock or lightly modified (cars or) motorcycles. A high octane rating itself, however, does not (necessarily) mean that the fuel is slow burning. Hence, it has no direct bearing on the power characteristics of the fuel.

The knock tendency (and hence, the Octane rating) of a fuel is a function of the amount of free radicals present in the fuel prior to ignition and can be reduced by the addition of tetra ethyl lead, aromatics and other additives.

Although some racing organizations still use maximum octane number as the discriminating factor for fuel legality, it is really not appropriate for racing purposes.

Instead one should look at the amount of energy (heat) released in the burning of a particular fuel. This is described by the specific energy of the fuel. This quantity describes the amount of power one can obtain from the fuel much more accurately. The specific energy of the fuel is the product of the lower heating value (LHV) of the fuel and molecular weight of air (MW) divided by the air-fuel ratio (AF):

Specific Energy = LHV*MW/AF

For example, for gasoline LHV= 43 MJ/kg and AF=14.6, while for methanol LHV= 21.1 MJ/kg (less "heat" than gasoline) and AF=6.46 (much richer jetting than gasoline). Using the above formula we see that methanol only has a 10% higher specific energy than gasoline! This means that the power increase obtained by running methanol, with no other changes except jetting, is only 10%. Comparing the specific energy of racing and premium pump gas you can see that there is not much, if any, difference. Only alcohols (such as methanol or ethanol) have a slightly higher specific energy than racing or pump gas.

Other oxygen-bearing fuels, besides the alcohols and nitromethanes, such as the new EL fuel, will also produce slightly more power once the bike is rejetted.

However, at $15.00 to $20.00 at gallon for the fuel the reportedly minor (1 % - 2%) improvement is hardly worth the cost for the average racer.

The real advantage of racing gasolines comes from the fact that they will tolerate higher compression ratios (due to their higher octane rating) and thus indirectly will produce more power since you can now build an engine with a higher compression ratio. Also, alcohols burn cooler than gasoline, meaning even higher compression ratios are possible with them, for even more power.

The bottom line here is that, in a given engine, a fuel that doesn't knock will produce the same power as most expensive racing gasolines.

However, it sometimes happens that when you use another fuel, the engine suddenly seems to run better. The reasons for this are indirect:

First, the jetting may be more closely matched to the new fuel.

Secondly, the new fuel may improve the volumetric efficiency (that is, the "breathing") of the motor.

This happens as follows: Basically a fuel that quickly evaporates upon contact with the hot cylinder wall and piston crown will create additional pressure inside the cylinder, which will reduce the amount of fresh air/fuel mix taken in. This important-but often overlooked-factor is described by the amount of heat required to vaporize the fuel, described by the 'enthalpy of vaporization' (H), or 'heat of vaporization' of the fuel.

A high value of H will improve engine breathing, but the catch is that it leads to a different operating temperature within the engine. This is most important with two-strokes, which rely on the incoming fuel/air mix to do much of the cooling-even modern water-cooled two-strokes rely on incoming charge to cool the piston. For two-strokes a fuel that vaporizes, drawing a maximum amount of heat from the engine, is essential-the small variations in horsepower produced by different fuels is only of secondary concern.

Also important is the flame speed: Power is maximized the faster the fuel burns because the combustion pressure rises more quickly and can do more useful work on the piston. Flame speed is typically between 35 and 50 cm/sec. This is rather low compared to the speed of sound, at which pressure waves travel, or even the average piston speed. It is important to note that the flame propagation is greatly enhanced by turbulence (as in a motor with a squish band combustion chamber).

The most amazing thing about all this is that you can get the relevant information from mc racing gasoline manufacturers. Then, just look at the specification sheet to see what fuel suits you best: Hot running motors and 2-strokes should use fuels with a value of "H" that improves their cooling, while more power (and more heat) is obtained from fuels with a high specific energy.

By the way, pump gas has specific energies which are no better or worse than most racing gasolines. The power obtained from pump gas is therefore often identical to that of racing fuels, and the only reason to run racing fuels would be detonation problems, or, since racing fuels are often more consistent than pump gas - which racers call "chemical soup.""</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

great thread keep it goin

 

I don't see anything wrong with your question. To answer it most plainly, running premium gas on an s2000 will most definitely give you more power. Not "slight variation", but a significant amount more. I guarantee it. Probably more so than any headers or cold air intakes would. The S2000 is a high performance, high compression engine that is tuned to run on premium gas, and the type of gas used will most defiantly make a difference.

I used to see a significant difference between running 93 and 94 octane in my b16 crx, back in the day when I used to go drag racing every week. I had over 100 timeslips, ranging from 16 seconds down to 14.1, and I could explain every tenth of a second based on what I did to my car. Switching from 93 to 94 was worth about .2 seconds, but more importantly, it was worth about 2-3 mph. Granted this was a Japanese engine tuned for Japanese gas (whatever that means), but nevertheless the difference was there and the difference was clear.

Car and Driver also did an article about this, and has shown that there is a significant difference in power output in the cars designed to use premium. If there wasn't, manufacturers wouldn't specify its use. "Premium Only" is not exactly the best selling point of a car...

 

A higher octane does absolutely nothing to make more power. It is simply (as explained before) the ability to resist detonation. On a car that is tuned for 91 you will not see any power gain by switching to 93/94 octane. The area where you see a difference is when the car has been tuned to 93/94 octane because it is able to resist more detonation there for you can advance the timing or what is needed to make more power on the engine.

I call BS on your .2 gains due to switching gas unless A) You had a custom tune or B) You are a very inconsistent driver

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LAS2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wrong. I win again. read this.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

great post . That is completely all true, and I will not deny anything in your post.

You just have to ask yourself one question.

"A Honda knock sensor is a modified microphone that only has enough sensitivity to detect PRE-ignition or knock up to 4000 rpm. After this point, it can't distinguish between regular engine noise as the motor revs from knocking and so it only acts as an idle/partial throttle detector and then instructs the ECU to retard the base ignition timing map program at these rpms BEFORE it can get ugly up in the higher rpms. Once detonation occurs, it is too late: the horse is out of the barn."

are you 100% positive that The S2000's knock sensor is the same as all previous honda knock sensors? I mean, The S doesn't have timing belts, or spark plugs like OTHER honda engines...

As I have read, and I know you have. It's not the same. The S2000 has a very advanced knock sensor. It is honda's only true knock sensor. The difference is the S2000 WILL back up the timing even when vtec is engaged.

so basically....wrong.

you lose again


oh and also LAS2K, you definetly need to sig this thread


Modified by Techno Tonis at 2:56 PM 9/24/2007


Modified by Techno Tonis at 2:59 PM 9/24/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcturbols &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A higher octane does absolutely nothing to make more power.... The area where you see a difference is when the car has been tuned to 93/94 octane because it is able to resist more detonation there for you can advance the timing or what is needed to make more power on the engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I keep hearing the same inconsistency. "It does nothing to make more power but it will make more power if the engine is tuned for it."

So basically, 91 octane in an S2000 will make more power than 87. That's all it comes down to. Whether we understand the reasons behind it and whatever theories we might have don't change the fact that in this case, higher octane will make more power. Up to a point of course, and what that point is on a S2000, I don't know. I do know that on my b16 crx, that point was at or after 94 octane. Call BS all you want, but I know what I saw and so does everyone else that went with me. You don't run constant 15.1s for a couple weeks, frustrated that you can't break into the 14s...then one week it's suddenly 14.9s....then suddenly 15.1s again. And then constant 14.9s after that....with the only thing being changed in your car is the gas you ran that day...and make an educated claim that the gas was not responsible for this.

When that light went off in my head pointing to the gas, I immediately added a gallon of 108 octane to the car, thinking I was going to to run 12s Nope. 14.9s. Constant. Plus lightening the doors/ hatch ~ 14.7. Plus unbolting restrictive exhaust ~14.5. Last/ coldest day of the season ~14.3. All these values were tested and retested for the duration of an entire season. Sometimes the changes were made between runs. Same results. Every time.

 

well here is something constant.. vehicles that require premium, and has had a nice tank of non premium gas.. will have a total loss of higher speed, and i actaully noticed this when i stuck 89 in my crx back then,.. couldnt get passed 60mph cuz the timing was pulled back so much . it did end up going above 60 mph but it felt like i had the ebrake on the whole time

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Last/ coldest day of the season ~14.3.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
As you can see change in temperature can make a huge difference, which is probably why you ran faster. Unless you put 87 gas in before which is stupid to do on a car tuned from the factory to run 91.
What we have all said is if you have your car tuned to 91, obviously you will make less power with a lower octane gas because it can not resist preignition as well as the 91. It will not make any more power though by running a higher octane gas, because it is still tuned to 91. If you tune the ECU from a 91 to a 94 octane you have more power potential because the gas will resist preignition better.
Gas itself does absolutely nothing to increase power, it only resist preignition better. The tune itself is what increases the power and it is able to run a leaner A/F ratio or more advanced timing or a higher compression ratio because the gas resist detonation better.
Do some research, and honestly nobody cares what your timeslips say because this has been looked into and properly researched hundreds of times by professional engineers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Gas itself does absolutely nothing to increase power, it only resist preignition better. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why must we keep insisting that premium gas isn't what makes power?...it's the tune. It's like some hell-bent effort to show somebody up. "I am right you are wrong." Of course the gas itself isn't what makes power. Neither are the pistons, the air, the cams, the VTEC, or the driver. All have to work together.

But saying that "premium gas doesn't make power" is like saying that it's not the jet engine on an F16 that lets it outrun the crx....it's the tune. Or we can also say that filling my car up with water won't make less power...it's just that the engine hasn't been tuned for water. Of course it hasn't, as using fusion power in a daily driver hasn't been perfected quite yet. But the facts are clear as day: water in my gas tank = less power.

As is the point that using premium gas will result in more power. Of course the engine needs to be designed/ tuned for it. Of course it won't work so well in a diesel, much like premium diesel won't work so well in a gas engine. But that's no grounds for dismissing the fact that premium, in the right application, will make more power.

And if you refuse to believe that the Japanese market B16 in my CRX was the right application, so be it. I'm just conveying the results from a controlled experiment, repeated and retested and reconfirmed over and over every week for 4 months, until I could have bet the pink slip on it. Yes, it could have been space men from Mars. It could have been that God smiled on the crx on those exact days that I put premium in it, but not when I didn't. And of course you won't believe it because you weren't there. But for me, I'll just go ahead and stick with the best scientific explanation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why must we keep insisting that premium gas isn't what makes power?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because it isn't you retard.

Premium gas is just more resistant to heat, no more, no less.

What in the world makes you think you get more "power" by using premium gas? Do you even understand the difference between 87 and 91? or is 91 just 4 more to you.

On a Stock tuned S, the only difference that would show up using 87, is worse gas mileage and a very slight decrease in performance.

not a slower car, just worse gas mileage.

you also understand that anything above 94 AKI is a different type of fuel than pump gas, right?

we have already been over this, seriously.

"adding higher-octane race fuel to your (car or) motorcycle may actually produce less horsepower. Here's why:

Octane, an arbitrary number which is calculated as the average the Research Octane Number (RON) and the Motor Octane Number (MON), and is only an indication of a fuel's sensitivity to knock, which is typically pressure-induced self-ignition. (Of these two ratings, MON is more applicable to racing fuels as it is measured under high load and high speed conditions.)

Octane, as you can see, is not a measure of how much power - or, more correctly, specific energy - is contained in a fuel. And remember that leaded high-octane race fuels burn slower than most unleaded fuels, and may reduce performance in stock or lightly modified (cars or) motorcycles. A high octane rating itself, however, does not (necessarily) mean that the fuel is slow burning. Hence, it has no direct bearing on the power characteristics of the fuel."


Modified by Techno Tonis at 12:56 PM 9/25/2007


Modified by Techno Tonis at 1:03 PM 9/25/2007


Modified by Techno Tonis at 1:20 PM 9/25/2007

 

everyone is talking about the answer but no one has realized it yet.

ignition timing

advancing and retarding the timing based on detonation resistance/knock......this is what the ecu does when you run various grades of gas.

lets think about what "timing" controls........it's how many degrees off of top dead center that spark is sent to ignite the fuel.

Well DUH if we can optimize the ignition timing to fit in the most amount of air/fuel mixture then we will see an increase in power

If the ecu has to retard timing because it is detecting knock then essentially you are losing some portion of your air/fuel volume

Please, no one take away from this that i said putting ignition timing at top dead center is best because you can fit the most fuel......there are other mechanics involved hear as well.......since the piston rotates it is best to ignite the fuel a certain degress away from top dead center so as to propel the pistion in its eliptical motion.

The fact of the matter is, it's best to run the octane the motor is tuned for......running anything higher is a waste and running anything lower is potentially harmful and will likely result in decreased gas mileage

and who ever this guy is that keeps telling LAS2K he is wrong.......you are only proving yourself wrong time and time again
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Techno Tonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The difference is the S2000 WILL back up the timing even when vtec is engaged.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you started out ok until you claimed that there were no ill effects from running lower than recommended octane

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silver Surfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and who ever this guy is that keeps telling LAS2K he is wrong.......you are only proving yourself wrong time and time again

you started out ok until you claimed that there were no ill effects from running lower than recommended octane
</TD></TR></TABLE>

There arn't you can believe what ever you want, but anyone who believes running 87 in an S will hurt it, is clueless.

Premium gas isn't available all over the world, honda has to be able to make sure no mechanical failures would arive from using 87, cmon now, thats just silly. porsche does the same thing too. all of you need to do research.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silver Surfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">everyone is talking about the answer but no one has realized it yet.

ignition timing</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope, believe i covered this.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silver Surfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">advancing and retarding the timing based on detonation resistance/knock......this is what the ecu does when you run various grades of gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silver Surfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lets think about what "timing" controls........it's how many degrees off of top dead center that spark is sent to ignite the fuel.

Well DUH if we can optimize the ignition timing to fit in the most amount of air/fuel mixture then we will see an increase in power

If the ecu has to retard timing because it is detecting knock then essentially you are losing some portion of your air/fuel volume

Please, no one take away from this that i said putting ignition timing at top dead center is best because you can fit the most fuel......there are other mechanics involved hear as well.......since the piston rotates it is best to ignite the fuel a certain degress away from top dead center so as to propel the pistion in its eliptical motion.

The fact of the matter is, it's best to run the octane the motor is tuned for......running anything higher is a waste and running anything lower is potentially harmful and will likely result in decreased gas mileage </TD></TR></TABLE>

completly agreed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silver Surfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and who ever this guy is that keeps telling LAS2K he is wrong.......you are only proving yourself wrong time and time again

you started out ok until you claimed that there were no ill effects from running lower than recommended octane
</TD></TR></TABLE>

wrong.

"All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/...x.htm


now grab a seat and shut up.

Modified by Techno Tonis at 1:06 PM 9/25/2007


Modified by Techno Tonis at 1:21 PM 9/25/2007