Ok, the car is a 97 Civic Ex D16Y8.. stock other than an intake and exhaust. Anyway, i kept getting a CEL for misfire on clyinder #1 so i went through and replaced the plugs, wires, cap, rotor and fuel filter...Didnt fix anything so i tried a different dizzy... Still nothing so i got another set of stock injectors and it still didnt fix it.

So i dont know what the f*ck to try now...

Its hard to explain but when i have a timing light on #1 its like it sparks to many times. but on #2-4 the light is like tick...tick...tick...tick ect.

but when i put it one cyl #1 its like tick...tickticktick...ticktick...tick...ticktickti ck

 

somethings not right. i think you might be misdiagnosing. considering all the other cylinders rely on the location of cyl #1. i would think you would have a random multiple misfire. what tools did you use to diagnose the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by postman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">somethings not right. i think you might be misdiagnosing. considering all the other cylinders rely on the location of cyl #1. i would think you would have a random multiple misfire. what tools did you use to diagnose the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah tell me about it...im lost.

Like i said, i hooked a timing light on to each individual plug wire and just watched the light and they all had a nice steady spark excpet Cyl. #1 that looks like its sparking 3-4 times everytime its suppose to spark once.

Normaly the light goes flash....flash....flash....flash and it did on #2-4 but on #1 the light just went nuts and was flashing like crazy.

 

you should only be using the timing light on cyl 1 it wont act correctly on the other cyl. all the time. use a scan tool to read the cel. advanced or auto zone can do it. hell any shop really. then you will know fir sure the exact problem hopefully

 

The scanner at advance/auto zone are junk...thats where i took it when the cel came on and all it says is Misfire Cylinder #1.. and i dont have 40-60 bucks right now to have a shop scan it with a better scanner.

I wasnt using the timing light to attempt to time the car i was only using it to see if all of the cylinders were sparking correctly since it lights up when it notices spark and obviously #1 isnt sparking right... I just need to figure out why.

The only thing i can think of is something in the ECU now.

 

if you replaced dizzy, wires, plugs and injectors, the only other thing maybe is the ecu or a brake on the wires that go from the injector to the ecu.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MR_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The scanner at advance/auto zone are junk...thats where i took it when the cel came on and all it says is Misfire Cylinder #1.. and i dont have 40-60 bucks right now to have a shop scan it with a better scanner.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats all any scanner will tell you. All cylinders get spark from the same coil, So its gotta be a input. Can you get hold of any diag. papers? Trouble trees, wireing diagrams?

 

most hondas use a built in crank sensor inside dizzy but there are a few that actully use a crank sensor right behind crank pulley inside timing cover if that is the case. if you had acces to a scan tool then check your rpms on your dash and compare them to the rpms on scan tool if there is any diffrence the either wiring problem or crank sensor and another thing is that the pulley has several teeth that run past the sensor and dirt or chipped tooth can cause messed up reading and fire at wrong time or randomly. I would check that. the best thing to do is get it on a scope and watch the square wave for uniform any disruptions would cause a problem.

 

have you checked compression? lower than normal compression can cause this code you may not even notice the miss but the ecu does.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slo blue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you checked compression? lower than normal compression can cause this code you may not even notice the miss but the ecu does. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes i have done a compression check and they are all 165 across the board...Ill have to do some checking on the injector wires or something i guess.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhatch2356 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most hondas use a built in crank sensor inside dizzy but there are a few that actully use a crank sensor right behind crank pulley inside timing cover if that is the case. if you had acces to a scan tool then check your rpms on your dash and compare them to the rpms on scan tool if there is any diffrence the either wiring problem or crank sensor and another thing is that the pulley has several teeth that run past the sensor and dirt or chipped tooth can cause messed up reading and fire at wrong time or randomly. I would check that. the best thing to do is get it on a scope and watch the square wave for uniform any disruptions would cause a problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Listen to this guy. You're in somewhat complicated territory here. Injector wire failure will not cause the crazy spark you are describing.

 

bottom line is your broke. but the only way to fix the problem is with a correct diagnosis. save some money take it to a shop with an oscilloscope or datastream capability.

the money you have already wasted in trying to make repairs could have went towards the correct fix.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by postman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bottom line is your broke. but the only way to fix the problem is with a correct diagnosis. save some money take it to a shop with an oscilloscope or datastream capability.

the money you have already wasted in trying to make repairs could have went towards the correct fix.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I havent really wasted money, the car needed a tune up so i figured thats why it was missing...everything that i replaced needed to be replaced anyways i just figured it would fix the problem...im gonna try borrowing an ecu from a friend and if that doesnt fix it i will be taking it to a shop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhatch2356 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most hondas use a built in crank sensor inside dizzy but there are a few that actully use a crank sensor right behind crank pulley inside timing cover if that is the case.</TD></TR></TABLE>

NNNNN. 100% wrong.

That sensor is not used for fuel and ignition timing. Its sole purpose is to detect cylinder misfires that cause fluctuations in the crankshaft rotation, hence its name "Crankshaft Fluctuation Sensor".

Even OBD2 Civics up to 2000 still use the same sensors in the dizzy as OBD1 vehicles.


To the OP,
What spark plugs did you use?

ONLY, NGK copper. None of that platinum, iridium, etc crap. The stock honda ignition is not powerful enough to use those plugs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MADMAX_zero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To the OP,
What spark plugs did you use?

ONLY, NGK copper. None of that platinum, iridium, etc crap. The stock honda ignition is not powerful enough to use those plugs.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats all ive ever ran is the cheap NGK V Power plugs.

 

Were they gapped correctly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MADMAX_zero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Were they gapped correctly?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

sure are.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MADMAX_zero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

NNNNN. 100% wrong.

That sensor is not used for fuel and ignition timing. Its sole purpose is to detect cylinder misfires that cause fluctuations in the crankshaft rotation, hence its name "Crankshaft Fluctuation Sensor".

Even OBD2 Civics up to 2000 still use the same sensors in the dizzy as OBD1 vehicles.


To the OP,
What spark plugs did you use?

ONLY, NGK copper. None of that platinum, iridium, etc crap. The stock honda ignition is not powerful enough to use those plugs.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am only responding to this so you can know what you are talking about. cause I would hate for you to be giving out wrong info and making yourself look bad. but if the cam crank sensor all it did was detect fluctuations then how would it know when to fire the computer is not physcic it needs the crank sensor to tell computer that it is on compression stroke on #1 clynder and can use that data to fire the rest of the clynders. have you ever used a scope or had to diagnois a vehicle with such ep proplems. like I said I am not trying to argue with you cause I work with and was trained by several 30yr ase techs. I am just trying to make sure you are not sending people down the wrong path.

 

and in addtion to that the cam sensor does detect misfires as well as help with injector pulse width. remember a car can run without a cam sensor and run like **** but it can not and repeat can not run without crank sensor.

 

valve timing maybe? the carzy spark thing sounds like spark scatter. i know hondas use valve lash ajusting. my be the #1 valves are not opening all the way?
it's relay hard to diag. a vehical over the internet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by garrettsc60-1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">valve timing maybe? the carzy spark thing sounds like spark scatter. i know hondas use valve lash ajusting. my be the #1 valves are not opening all the way?
it's relay hard to diag. a vehical over the internet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats definately not it. listen gsrhatch2356. I've been working at a Mitsubishi shop for a long time, but I've never seen something like this. If I did I would start out with the sort of tests gsrhatch2356 is talking about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhatch2356 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am only responding to this so you can know what you are talking about. cause I would hate for you to be giving out wrong info and making yourself look bad. but if the cam crank sensor all it did was detect fluctuations then how would it know when to fire the computer is not physcic it needs the crank sensor to tell computer that it is on compression stroke on #1 clynder and can use that data to fire the rest of the clynders. have you ever used a scope or had to diagnois a vehicle with such ep proplems. like I said I am not trying to argue with you cause I work with and was trained by several 30yr ase techs. I am just trying to make sure you are not sending people down the wrong path.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right........., it's not like the cam is CONNECTED to the crank or anything. That would be just crazy talk. They just magically spin on there own. ::rolleyes

Tell those 30yr techs to get their money back, cause without cam position info, there is NO WAY to know whether the #1 piston is on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.

Try to think for yourself next time instead of listening to a bunch of old douchebags that don't know jack.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhatch2356 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and in addtion to that the cam sensor does detect misfires as well as help with injector pulse width. remember a car can run without a cam sensor and run like **** but it can not and repeat can not run without crank sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Wow, way wrong. The cam sensors don't detect misfires. The crankshaft fluctuation sensor does. Weren't you reading?

What you said is completely backwards.

 

The cam is connected to the crank by timming belt and as long as it is in time the dizzy can get a crank position off of that. so if you have another way that a computer can tell when it is at #1 on compression stroke then please fill me in instead of posting whats seems to be opinions. please.

my apologies to op but with a sitiuation like this you need a scope and scan tool. this one wont be able to be diag in the drive way.

 

could it be the crank fluctuation sensor is bad?