is it true that if we do not use stiffer springs in the rear, we will rip the rear swaybar bolts?? coz someone told me that it will, right now set up 12k front and rear 8k with zeal B6, pls need help

 

engrish prease?

mugen 26 is fine with OEM endlinks.

D

 

8K rear springs are more than enough to prevent overstressing the mounting of the bar. Mugen's lowdown suspension is only like 4.5kg/mm in the rear anyway, and that suspension matches the bar(s) extremely well. Mugen does warn that you might damage things if you run the bar with stock suspension. I did for a year or more of regular track events, and nothing ever happened.

 

just curious... where do they say that? I have the 26mm bar and never saw anything like that. you got me concerned that I might have to rush out and get the lowdown to prevent problems.

 

Well I have the 1999 catalog in front of me, and I quote from page...no page numbers. So at the stabilizer bar description, last sentence:

"When used with suspension with a long stroke, there is a risk of damage to the brackets so please be careful."

I am assuming that the stock suspension fits in this description.

 

I remember that Mugen also offer the 24mm version. And I guess Mugen don't make things that's of no use, our stock one is 22mm right? So if I use front stock swaybar and 24mm, will it be good enough for a neutral setup?

 

it will be an improvement, but obviously not as stiff as the 26mm. (22 -> 24 ->26)

 

My point is to achive a neutral balance when adding in the rear sway. The Mugen front sway bar is 26mm also, so I guess Mugen had in mind of neutrality in mind to have its users put on both front and rear. I forgot what our stock front sway bar is, but if it's 22mm and I add in a 26mm in the rear, that's overkill for too much oversteering and you are asking for trouble on tracks.

 

No, the front is 24 mm.

the 26mm will provide a great more deal of oversteering.

if your goal is to stiffen the chasis, a rollcage would come in handy.

I'm not sure why people are so reluctant to throw a rollcage in their car.

i'm getting one eventually, painted takata green, to match certain other features of my car

here is a listing if you are interested.

first number is front, second number is rear.

Stock Type-R 3dr 24mm 22mm
Stock GS-R 3,4dr 24mm 14mm
Stock RS/LS 3dr 22.1mm 12.9mm
Stock RS/LS 4dr 22.1mm 14mm
Comptech ? mm 22mm
DC Sports 25mm 17mm
Lightspeed 25.4mm 17.46mm
Suspension Techniques 24mm 19mm
Neuspeed n/a 19mm
Addco n/a n/a
Eibach 22m 17mm
Jackson Racing 21mm 19mm
Z.Speed 26mm 21mm

 

The goal is for "neutral handling"

 

i posted some technical data above, and offered all the advice i can.

what you decide on is upon you.

rollcage will definately "neutralize" any kind of feeling you might have

if you are a sway bar *****, you can opt for the mugen 26mm rear, and get the Z.Speed front 26mm.

 

There's more to swaybar stiffness than the size. Type and position of the endlink plays a huge role in how much body roll the bar will eliminate. The further the endlink is from the pivot point of the LCA the more mechanical advantage it will have in keeping the LCA from moving. It's like when you use a bar extension on your socket wrench to break a bolt loose. Using the same force, you will apply more torque as you go further away from the pivot point. The RealTime ITR's place their swaybar endlinks pretty much at the wheel. Also consider the type of endlink. The GS-R uses a regular connection while the ITR uses a ball-joint type in front, which I am told also adds stiffness. Bushing stiffness is another factor as well.

So I don't think you can say a 24mm front and 24mm rear sway bar will equal neutral handling. There are other factors involved in how much roll each bar will actually reduce, so to find out what's "neutral" you'd need to know more than just the size of the bars.

 

You are right, but Mugen's bars all attach the stock mounting points with stock endlinks. So the comparison might be okay in this case. It's also important to note that the torsional stiffness of a bar varies with the square of the diameter, so just a few mm makes a big difference.

You are also right that you can't say you want "neutral" handling, because there are so many factors involved. I can comment on stock suspension w/ both the 26mm front and rear bars, because I drove that on the track for more than a year. First, you get the feeling that the bars are almost too stiff in that they become a dominating force in the suspension during cornering. You start to wish for stiffer shocks because the setup feels sort of underdamped. The car does have more of a tail-out attitude during steady-state cornering, but it is also more easily upset by mid-corner bumps in fast curves, particularly in conjunction with BFG g-Force R1s. I had some heart-stoppers at Willow Springs turn 8!

Later, I added Lowdowns and camber adjusters, and the car became quite different. I don't know if it was faster, maybe not, but the car had a cool FF-style cornering stance that I found pretty entertaining. Turning into an apex, you would aim the nose of the car at the infield to the inside of the apex during turn-in. I would go in with no throttle. Then the car would just slide its way through the corner sort of sideways. Not some crazy drift, but just working the rear tires nicely. At California Speedway when they had a stack of tires at each apex, you would aim inside the stack, and watch as the stack moved across the nose of the car as you cornered. Very fun.