ok so ill admit it i have been beating on my car lately untuned (sometimes you cant resist it . I have gone through 3 quarts of oil in the past 2 weeks, is it just because VTEC eats alot of oil or could it be this crazy pcv valve contraption on my valve cover?:



suggestions?

its a ls/vtec motor, b18b1 bottom end, b16 head, ITR cams and valvetrain, if that makes any difference.

its not leaking anywhere. could it just be that with that pcv hose that goes from my valve cover to my intake mani, that at higher rpms, there is enough vacuum in there from the intake mani to suck oil out of the valve cover into the intake mani where it would be put into the engine and burned???

 

if the oils going into the intake manifold your either getting major build up or its burning out the exhaust.. have someone drive behind you and tell you what htey see

 

Hmm, while your car is idle put your hand up to your exhaust pipe... maybe have someone rev the engine.

 

No. Honda did not design the PCV system to consume excessive amounts of oil.

If you have no leaks, then it could be your valve seals or piston rings.

A leakdown test will assess the effectiveness of your valve seals and how well your valves seat. A compression test would give you an indication of the condition of your rings.

How many miles on the head and block?

 

you keep posting the same old pictures on every single thread you create...

Does it smoke in high revs? You also have rusted shock tower bolts...

 

if it isnt leaking than it has to be burning it in the engine somewhere.

 

you should block off your PCV vent on the valve cover... because it doesnt look like your using it, and the VC also looks oily are you leaking anywhere else?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b 1 6 a 2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you keep posting the same old pictures on every single thread you create...

Does it smoke in high revs? You also have rusted shock tower bolts...</TD></TR></TABLE>why post stupidity

 

it looks like you got a build up in the line going to the pcv and its leakin out at that white elbow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by akunamatta &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should block off your PCV vent on the valve cover... because it doesnt look like your using it, and the VC also looks oily are you leaking anywhere else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uhmm, no. That vent needs to be open.

 

The newer B18B's don't have the holes in the back for the breather boxes, so you have to hookup the PCV valve in a similar fashion to what you have. I have used this method before without any oil consumption issues. I am not sure what the hell the fitting in the line is for though, its certainly NOT the PCV valve like you have labeled. Looks more like some type of union. The PCV appears to be in the grommet on the valve cover like it should be...

Who ever did this conversion for you LOVED zip ties. Also, why the aftermarket injectors? Whats the setup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by akunamatta &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should block off your PCV vent on the valve cover... because it doesnt look like your using it, and the VC also looks oily are you leaking anywhere else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

blocking that will cause other problems. dont block it

got a dark blue/black smokey exhaust? rings or valves are gone. gonna have to pull it apart either way

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Uhmm, no. That vent needs to be open.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marshun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

blocking that will cause other problems. dont block it

got a dark blue/black smokey exhaust? rings or valves are gone. gonna have to pull it apart either way</TD></TR></TABLE>

reguardless, he should run a tube from it to help catch any excess oil... similar to how honda designed it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by akunamatta &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">reguardless, he should run a tube from it to help catch any excess oil... similar to how honda designed it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually honda designed it so that the air going through the intake would create a vacuum and help relieve the valve cover of pressure. there isnt supposed to be that much oil coming up through it. just a tiny tiny bit. a catch can should just be an interupt in the line. still holding vac and catching the oil

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sql_civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No. Honda did not design the PCV system to consume excessive amounts of oil.

If you have no leaks, then it could be your valve seals or piston rings.

A leakdown test will assess the effectiveness of your valve seals and how well your valves seat. A compression test would give you an indication of the condition of your rings.

How many miles on the head and block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

A compression test will not tell you if your rings are bad, that will all be covered in the leakdown test. If you find excessive leak in any one cylinder you should be able to hear it. if you hear it in the valve cover, chances are it is valve guide seals, if you hear it in intake or exhaust, you may have a bad valve, or a very dirty one that is not seating properly, and if you hear it in the oil pan, or dipstick tube it may be the rings. Keep in mind that the head and block share oil passages obviously so don't confuse them. Now if I were you, I would try to visually inspect where all of this oil is going first. 1.5 quarts a week is significant, and you should be able to see traces where ever it is coming from. Pull out your plugs and have a look, because I think they would look like crap if you are in fact burning that much, also look inside your intake mani because if it is all going through your pcv setup, it will pile up in the manifold. Does it smoke? I had a car that did 1 quart a week, and it smoked like crazy.

 

Just get a K series already!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by \"sql_civic\" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many miles on the head and block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

block was rebuilt with stock oem internals approx 12k ago. head i am unsure of, but i know the cams and valvetrain are out of an ITR, so i am guessing they were new when the previous owner of the engine did the build.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by \"b 1 6 a 2\" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does it smoke in high revs? You also have rusted shock tower bolts...</TD></TR></TABLE>

To my knoledge, i have not seen or smelled any burning oil or smoke at higher revs.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by \"Hybrid96EK\" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The newer B18B\'s don\'t have the holes in the back for the breather boxes, so you have to hookup the PCV valve in a similar fashion to what you have. I have used this method before without any oil consumption issues. I am not sure what the hell the fitting in the line is for though, its certainly NOT the PCV valve like you have labeled. Looks more like some type of union. The PCV appears to be in the grommet on the valve cover like it should be...

Who ever did this conversion for you LOVED zip ties. Also, why the aftermarket injectors? Whats the setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the white elbow is not a pcv valve, i am almost certain the metal thing labeled in the pic is the pcv valve because it rattles when i shake it. The white elbow appears to just be an elbow to connect to the valve cover. The injectors are DSM 450s, because the previous owner had the motor boosted and i basically bought it as is minus the turbo. i have stock injectors that i will have installed when i get the car tuned (hopefully soon).


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by \"oneludesol\" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A compression test will not tell you if your rings are bad, that will all be covered in the leakdown test. If you find excessive leak in any one cylinder you should be able to hear it. if you hear it in the valve cover, chances are it is valve guide seals, if you hear it in intake or exhaust, you may have a bad valve, or a very dirty one that is not seating properly, and if you hear it in the oil pan, or dipstick tube it may be the rings. Keep in mind that the head and block share oil passages obviously so don\'t confuse them. Now if I were you, I would try to visually inspect where all of this oil is going first. 1.5 quarts a week is significant, and you should be able to see traces where ever it is coming from. Pull out your plugs and have a look, because I think they would look like crap if you are in fact burning that much, also look inside your intake mani because if it is all going through your pcv setup, it will pile up in the manifold. Does it smoke? I had a car that did 1 quart a week, and it smoked like crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i forgot to mention that in the 2 weeks that it burned 3 quarts of oil, i did a lot of \"spirited\" driving. I have not seen any oil smoke so thats why im so confused as to where its all going. Also the line going from the intake mani to the valve cover doesn\'t appear to be clogged up, there is a pretty good vacuum going through it still.

I am going to have my friend drive behind me and tell me what he sees. the car is untuned running on dsm 450s, stock internals, ITR cams and valvetrain and b16 head. its running on a basemap on hondata s200. theres just something about that pcv hose thats making me think its sucking oil from the valve cover at higher rpms and then just throwing it into the combustion and burning it. if anybody has any more ideas please tell! thanks!

 

so you didnt even do a compression test yet? the longer you wait and you keep driving the car....its just asking for it to blow

also running 450cc's on a stock (im assuming) car is very bad. how is the motor even staying on? that should flood out that **** quick.

things arent adding up

 

because the basemap is setup to run on 450s. i know the motor runs fine, it came out of a car running fine. i just cant figure out this oil thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lordofdark176 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because the basemap is setup to run on 450s. i know the motor runs fine, it came out of a car running fine. i just cant figure out this oil thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

when it was running fine in the other, was it using the same ecu you're using now???

if not, you probably caused the problems by beating on the motor with a bad tune.

 

Well, two things come to mind for me...

1). You have an "untuned" chip running 440's on stock internals.
2). I haven't ever seen a PCV valve that looks like that.

If the car was "tuned" before with the turbo on it, its still going to have different air flow characteristics once the snail is removed. Even when its not under full boost, the maps are going to need adjustments. I've personally seen this on my own car both before and after removing the turbo using the wideband. Its VERY possible to "wash" the rings if you run too much fuel. You would have been much better off to put in the stock injectors and run a stock ECU on that setup then using the old boost maps with the 440's in my opinion.

I wonder if that thing is a 'home made' type of PCV valve with maybe a ball and spring design. If so, it could be allowing oil to be sucked into the intake manifold and thus explains your oil consumption issue. I would firt start by removing that device and the elbow. Replace the elbow with a PCV valve and run a straight tube to the intake. This will eliminate the strange device thats inline with the hose right now.

 

The oil must be going somewhere. If there is not a huge puddle under your car, your engine is eating the oil. The rings or the head need work.

As was stated before. Do a leakdown to see where you are leaking, but most probably, the engine will continue to eat more and more oil, until it is 100% FUCKED.

 

pull the plugs and read them. pay particular attention to number 3. if they are oily and 3 is the worst, you're most likely pulling oil through the pcv port. look at it. it enters the mani right above the #3 runner. This could be due to excessive crank case pressure, which tends to happen at high rpms. I had this issue with my B16. IF this is your issue, here's how I fixed it. by taking the black breather/catch can on the back of the block, plugging it off, and running 2 -10 fittings off of the valve cover to a baffled and vented catch can, then 1 -10 from the bottom of the can for a return to the block. On either side of the oil filter there is a 14mm allen head plug. take one out then buy the hose barb fitting that goes in there from Honda (part numbers 11107-PK2-003 this is the fitting
12207-634-300 these are the washers) and use that for a drain back. Close off all unused manifold vacuum ports and valve cover breather tube, and you should be good to go. Hope this helps.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i hate import cars &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pull the plugs and read them. pay particular attention to number 3. if they are oily and 3 is the worst, you're most likely pulling oil through the pcv port. look at it. it enters the mani right above the #3 runner. This could be due to excessive crank case pressure, which tends to happen at high rpms. I had this issue with my B16. IF this is your issue, here's how I fixed it. by taking the black breather/catch can on the back of the block, plugging it off, and running 2 -10 fittings off of the valve cover to a baffled and vented catch can, then 1 -10 from the bottom of the can for a return to the block. On either side of the oil filter there is a 14mm allen head plug. take one out then buy the hose barb fitting that goes in there from Honda (part numbers 11107-PK2-003 this is the fitting
12207-634-300 these are the washers) and use that for a drain back. Close off all unused manifold vacuum ports and valve cover breather tube, and you should be good to go. Hope this helps.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The OBD-2 B18B's do not have the breather can on the back of the block. Its already blocked off as its not even in the casting.. Well, the hole is there but its full of aluminum. Thus he has the PCV in the valve cover..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by "Hybrid96EK" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, two things come to mind for me...

1). You have an "untuned" chip running 440's on stock internals.
2). I haven't ever seen a PCV valve that looks like that.

If the car was "tuned" before with the turbo on it, its still going to have different air flow characteristics once the snail is removed. Even when its not under full boost, the maps are going to need adjustments. I've personally seen this on my own car both before and after removing the turbo using the wideband. Its VERY possible to "wash" the rings if you run too much fuel. You would have been much better off to put in the stock injectors and run a stock ECU on that setup then using the old boost maps with the 440's in my opinion.

I wonder if that thing is a 'home made' type of PCV valve with maybe a ball and spring design. If so, it could be allowing oil to be sucked into the intake manifold and thus explains your oil consumption issue. I would firt start by removing that device and the elbow. Replace the elbow with a PCV valve and run a straight tube to the intake. This will eliminate the strange device thats inline with the hose right now. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I also forgot to mention its a p28 ecu chipped with hondata s200. I drove the car home the night hte swap was done CAREFULLY on the turbo map. the next day i drove it to a tuner to get a basemap loaded for the n/a setup. He asked me what size injectors i was using, i said 450cc injectors so he made that adjustment in the map. We then turned the adjustable fpr down a bit to compensate for there being more fuel added than needed. It atleast helped a bit but i know its not perfect. I really am hoping it is not the rings and i am done beating on it until i get it tuned. i am also installing the stock injectors when i get it tuned. praying for the best.