alright i have been having a high rpm ignition breakup that has been getting worse. it breaks up around 8000 rpms. i think its my plugs. im using r5671a-8. the non-resistor race plugs. i have tried every gap there is and its not that. i have also tried the r5672a-8 which have the projected tip. i cant ever get a good reading on the strap to check if its the correct heat range. could it be the plug is too cold causing the misfire?

 

ok now one of the plugs is showing the correct heat range.. its halfway on the ground strap. its just a hair below halfway, so it may be too hot but i dont think so.

 

Try the obvious ignition components:

-Distributor (start with cap and rotor)
-Plug wires (we've seen over 100whp loss from sketchy plug wires)
-Plug Gap
-External Coil
-Ignition Box

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedJeff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try the obvious ignition components:

-Distributor (start with cap and rotor)
-Plug wires (we've seen over 100whp loss from sketchy plug wires)
-Plug Gap
-External Coil
-Ignition Box
</TD></TR></TABLE>

already swapped dizzys
brand new ngk blues
tried gapping from 20-30
went through like 6 sets of plugs
use to be using a brand new msd ss coil and thought that was the problem but switched to oem and still the same
shouldnt need a ignition box when others dont use one and are fine. it use to not breakup and then it graduaklly started doing it every now and then and now it pretty much does it all the time around 8000 rpms give or take.

 

what engine management?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedJeff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what engine management?</TD></TR></TABLE>

s300

 

NGK told us to run a gap of .019 with OEM coil or anything less then a High output coil.

I'm guessing your running mid teens for boost?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NGK told us to run a gap of .019 with OEM coil or anything less then a High output coil.

I'm guessing your running mid teens for boost?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

25 psi. oem ignition. already tried a high output coil.

i have tried a .020 gap, i dont think its the gap but i could be wrong because i had the same gap with no breakup and all of a sudden its getting worse.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rota92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try a set of 9's at .018 for haha's

Thats what I run</TD></TR></TABLE>

Definitely try to gap the plugs down a bit tighter.

 

ok guess ill gap smaller than .020 and try.. just wierd it use to not breakup at all..

 

Use resistor plugs.... non resistor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20luda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use resistor plugs.... non resistor </TD></TR></TABLE>

does ngk make a resistor plug in heat range 8 ??

i thought everyone used r5671a-8 's 9's etc ?

 

2668 heat range 8
2669 heat range 9

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20luda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2668 heat range 8
2669 heat range 9 </TD></TR></TABLE>

no way im using irridiums

 

why not??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20luda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not??</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright, *** nog, I gave you a two word answer before rushing out to work. There's a bunch of things going on here. Ignoring a LOT of things... inductive resistance plugs meant for CDIs, heat range, desireable electrode material (short of coil on plug it's a nonsense argument), etc etc. I'm just scratching the surface here. Put on your waders:

1) Center electrode design.

To help with max coil charging, you want the hardest to jump air gap possible. From an electrical side of things, sharp edges or points help electricity arc over, and keeps the coil from building power for that extra instant. This is the #1 reason why you do not want a pointy dot center electrode, and why you want a broad faced center electrode.

Also. To help with heat dissipation, and to prevent your plug from turning into a big fat hotspot that induces pre-ignition, you want a broad faced center electrode. None of that pointy ****.

Here:


Gay.



Merely effeminant.



Grizzled and manly.

Common rule of thumb is that platinum or iridium is useless, and leaves men with fast cars questioning if you aren't a closet homo based on your plug selection. There are platinum coated real electrode plugs out there, but they are not common. Copper, steel, silver-nickel; these are the center electrode choice of manly men.


2) Gap.

Another way to control how hard the air gap is to jump, is by adjusting the air gap out to create a stronger spark. However, if you get too dense of an air-fuel mix in the combustion chamber it makes the air gap's resistance go up. Soooooo what we try to do is set the gap at the largest we can run without having a lot of plug problems. In a forced induction setup where we really squeeze in some air, the plug's air gap gets really tiny... eventually this causes the center electrode and ground strap to actually block the flame from spreading.



There are a couple of ways to address this.



You can cut back the ground strap so it doesn't block things.


Angle the ground strap... patience and a pair of needle nose!


NGK V-power causes spark to start at the outside edges of the center electrode, allowing the flame kernel to be exposed to much more air-fuel than otherwise possible. They also maintain a larger center electrode to help with heat dissipation and to avoid the hotspot and extreme conductivity problems associated with pinprick electrodes.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I've been using the R5671A-8's and R5672A-8's gapped at .018-.019 at 30psi and 9000rpm with no breakup issues.

It did have a misfiring issue twice on the dyno, once it was a MSD plug wire that went bad, the other time it needed a tighter gap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B20luda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use resistor plugs.... non resistor </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

rota uses NGK stock no. 5238 R5671A-9 .018 gap

We have two sets of -8 but have never used them.

To get true reading, install new plugs, tow car to water box, start car, do burn out, pull into staging beams, run the 1/4 mile, get on the brakes, push in clutch, shut off eng when it gets to idle. Tow car back to pit, remove plugs.


Just saw your running 25psi, tighten the gap tp maybe .015 for OEM ignition. You should look into a qualitiy high output ignition.

Crane coil and M&W Pro 10, rota can tell you more.


Modified by 1992Si at 7:37 PM 9/5/2007

 

the plug numbers i listed is what hondata recommends using with there EMS.... the thread starter is using S300....

4g63 in the evo uses iridium plugs from factory...cant be that bad but i dont know im not the plug expert?.?.?

 

hmm why arent other s300 users having problems with non-resistor plugs? why do i have problems now but use to not? i thought that resistor problems was just with k-series and k-pro ?

not saying that isnt the problem. but really dont want to go irridiums.

 

Well, i didnt have a break up problem with my car, but i had a connectivity issue with the ECU, datalogging would always freeze on me in the middle of tuning......i changed to a resistor plug it was gone, but i used 7's instead of the non resistor 8's
but my point being is that it must cause some type of interferance, and im sure the serverity will change from car to car, enough interferance to the ecu could cause some sensor abnormailties, plus the higher the RPM the more interferance i would assume...makes sense in my mind...

 

warning from hondata and the use of non-resistor plugs with k-pro.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondata &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Non-resistor Spark Plugs

On a Honda engine, if the stock spark plugs have been replaced, it is very important to ensure that the replacement spark plugs have an integral resistor. Non-resistor spark plugs cause a large amount of electrical interference which may effect vehicle electronics, including the ECU.

Resistor spark plugs use an integral resistor to absorb the radio frequency energy generated from the spark. In earlier Honda engines the resistor was often incorporated into the distributor cap or spark plug wires. With the K-Series engine the only place for the resistor is in the spark plug. Almost all spark plugs are of the resistor type (actually we were surprised that people could still buy non resistor type plugs).</TD></TR></TABLE>

why arent there any non-irridium resistor 8's ??

 

heres the link...beat me to it

http://www.hondata.com/techksparkplugs.html

 

yea makes sense but why arent there any resistor type plugs in heat range 8 that are non-irridium coppers? if it comes down to it i guess i have to try the irridiums.