1993 4th gen. h23a dohc 2.3L.
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My engine is running good, but the car has serious issues with getting up and go in lower gears. example: 3700-4000 rpms from 1st to 2nd=10 mph.
The rpms rev, but the car doesn't want to seem to go, once I get up to speed around 40mph all is fine. I thought I was having problems with compression but I tested each cylinder to be around 180 peek.
Could this be a sign of a possible clutch/trans. problem?
I've checked the master and slave cylinder (visually), and have not noticed any signs of leaking brake fluid or corrosion. I've also checked the pedal itself, and it seems to be oozing liquid around the push rod. Could it be a bad master cylinder? I'm not sure of the tension on the pedal, but it doesn't seem very stiff. It's going into gear, and shifting feels fine, but the lack of pick up is getting worse.
Could anyone please give me an idea of what's going on??
Thanks man,
-Shadow-

 

prolly master cylinder...and clutch slave...

 

If the engine revs up, but the car doesn't really go you need a new clutch. Sounds like you also need a new master cyl.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the engine revs up, but the car doesn't really go you need a new clutch. </TD></TR></TABLE> Boom

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Sounds like you also need a new master cyl.</TD></TR></TABLE> And Boom

 

The car DOES go.....and I drive it daily, approx. 70-100 miles daily, it simply has no pick up what so ever from 1st through 4th. I've adjusted the pedal itself, and turned the push rod in, thinking that it would put a little more pressure on the pressure plate while engaging....but that didn't work, it just made the pedal feel a little firmer, but no more acceleration or pick up, that leads me to believe that it may or may not be the clutch.
I have a complete tune up, flushed the radiator, changed the egr valve (twice) which is not pulling vacuum from the egr control valve, or egr control syl. but the egr valve itself is holding vacuum. By the way, I was throwing a cel code 12 (egr lift sensor). I've checked the vacuum lines, and they all seem fine.
My engine is running great..."purrs like a cat" but she just doesn't have any pick up. Like I said, From 1st gear at a complete stop somewhere between 3500-4000=10-15 mph. I know that the emissions part could play a huge roll in this, for some reason it is NOT my clutch, and if that's the case, what should I start removing to take all that s%&t off my car, that will not interfere with cars performance itself? The laws are not very strict where I'm from....and that emissions crap is just one more obstical to hurdle when finding a problem. A lot more money also.....It's (emissions law) about economics and the all mighty dollar, not the ozone layer......If that was the case we would have stopped using cfc's long before science made it clear, because they new it would cause the effect.....Better yet.....it's a little to late for that any way. I only care about my car for now, I'm not going to be here in 20 years anyway, neither are my children. J/K.....
Thanks......

 

Knock sensor, or map??? Any suggestions? Sorry about the previous post, I'm just a little pissed because everyone seems to have an answer to a problem on here....Then all of the sudden no one knows. Let me be a little more specific......

Has anyone that owns a 1993 honda prelude with an H23A1 engine, ever had problems with pick up issues, discussing vacuum problems, egr, map sensors, O2 sens., timing, back pressure, compression, clogged lines, faulty plugs, distributer, clogged cat. conv., faulty ecu, clutch, clutch master cyl., slave, etc. etc. I guess I'm the only one that has these thoughts about a possible problem that someone could generously help me solve?
I bet, if I had a question about, what type of fuel to use, or what brand of oil, I'd get hits like crazy......I'm just looking for advice, not to **** anyone off.....And YES I have searched, but the search engine only chooses it's own path, and you have to narrow it down to an hour for a specific search.
Googles the same.......
Thanks.....

 

Does the engine ever increase rpm without the car increasing speed?

Turning the adjustment on the clutch in is a bad idea, that will hold the fork down some, putting pressure on the fingers and lessening the grip force of the clutch.

 

the goop on the pedal sounds def like a master cylinder. first hand experience. about 4 hours ago i noticed my carpet (no floormats) were hella slippery. and i revved to 5-6k in 1st gear to get to 10-15 mph so pickup wasnt normal. I was hella close to my destination so i just pulled it into the DMV parking lot and sure enough when i feel around the clutch pedal, the pedal has dried brake fluid all over it. It woulda been way worse if i was on the road. go look in ur clutch fluid resorvoir, im sure u'll be low or u'll have less than u should. if not then u have a clutch/tranny problem which isn't good either.

signs of bad master cylinder (4hours ago, so still fresh)
high rev + no power
hard to get into gear (i got locked out since clutch wouldnt go in all the way.)
moist and lubed carpet. (pun anyone?)
resorvoir is low or near empty. (mine actually had the feed above the brake fluid, but at the rate of the leak I don't think it was that way very long before i pulled over)

all in all, 70-80dollar fix for me(40$ tow included) . Good luck to you.

 

Thanks so much for the responses....

The "goop" on the push rod of the pedal, I'm assuming is grease...or yes it could be brake fluid...I really can't tell. I adjusted the pedal back to it's normal position, I heard the same thing about adjusting the push rod being a bad idea. My clutch fluid reserve is maintaining its level as far as fluid goes. To be completely honest with you guys, I'm not exactly sure what's going on, someone suggested that the clutch/tranny could be the culprit. The stick goes into gear fine most of the time, with the exception of every now and then not wanting to go into first or reverse. When that happens, I just back off the clutch a tad, and it pops into place, but it doesn't do it all of the time. I've heard that preludes are notorious for this. I have no problems what so ever changing gears, and the car does go like normal, but I feel like I'm towing a boat, until around 3rd gear, it finally gets up to speed.
Could this lack of power, possibly be a vacuum/map issue throwing the ecu to confuse the timing of the engine??
I was throwing the c.e.l and found that it was the egr lift sensor (code 12), so I installed another egr valve, that didn't work, so I followed the trouble shooting diagram in the service manual, and I've found that I'm not getting any vacuum on any of my lines #16, #21, and #20. I've even checked vacuum on the map sensor, and it doesn't hold pressure, also I've checked vacuum on the egr vacuum control, and control solenoid valves, which also do not hold pressure. I'm beginning to wonder if my complete map system could be bad. The manual does say that if the map sensor is bad, it could dramatically reduce power by throwing off engine timing. Also...someone mentioned the knock sensor.....
What do you guys think?
Thanks a great deal

 

Put it in 5th at 40mph and floor it. What happens?

 

Vig,
Could you explain.....
thanks,
-Shadow-

 

That would test your clutch. If the rev's go up without as significant of a change in speed, you'll know what the deal is.

 

Thanks vig....I'll give it a shot. What's a normal increase in speed/rpm from 40 to 55 by flooring it? I normally drive a little conservative, so I wouldn't really know.....

 

"Put it in 5th at 40mph and floor it. What happens?"
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Ok...I just got back.

I'm not sure if I gave it enough time, but I floored it at 40mph, the engines rpms did not really excel the mph speed, it bogged and seem to struggle from me flooring it.....Almost as if it were struggling for back pressure from the exhaust, or not enough air. I have a short ram, so I'm sure it's getting plenty of air intake, it just feels like there's no compression, or it can't breath for some reason.
Could it be a clogged cat??? Or do you still think it's the clutch?
I have approx. 95,000 miles on the dash.

 

Good. Your clutch is ok. How old are your spark plugs and wires, distributor cap and rotor, fuel filter. When's the last time a valve adjustment was done?

 

Vig,

I've recently changed the plugs/wires, also changed the cap but I didn't change the rotter...couldn't get it off, and it didn't seem that bad. the plugs that I went with, were not H.P. plugs, just the $2.99 NGKs. Ive checked the gap on each plug, and all seems fine at the gap being 1.0/1.5mm-.040U.S.S...I've replaced the fuel filter, cleaned the egrv, iacv, and have checked most of the lines for vacuum, which I explained above.

Note: As I was changing my oil today, I noticed signs of (oil) fluid to be above/below the oil filter, on what I think is the oil pressure sensor. I did also see signs of the leak detection fluid from recharging my A/C on the side of the transmission which had a few webbed hair line cracks around the bottom of the bell housing . It looked to be some type of 3/8" plug, that I tightened back down, but all in ordinary, I'm NOT finding a lot of fluid while backing off the pavement every morning. the hair line cracks that I mentioned, were not leaking fluid, just the 3/8" plug. and it's the florescent fluid from the A/C....Hell or more likley....engine coolant.
Thanks.....

 

Sorry, I left this out...
I've never done a valve adjustment, and to my knowledge it most prob. has never been done.
I bought the lude off its original owner when she purchased it in 1993....I still have the original window sticker from the lot.

 

86,000 miles......

 

The valve adjustment wouldn't hurt, but I doubt it would cause such a power loss as bad as this. Either way, a quick check is a good idea.

The "cracks" on the transmission are just casting flash. They'll be fine. That plug is just the drain plug.

I've had problems like this before due to a failing ignition coil.

 

Someone on another board mentioned an oil leak slightly above the oil filter on the engine, some type of ring or gasket leaking. As I was changing my oil this weekend, I noticed that I am leaking a small bit of oil pertaining too this gasket/ring above/ near the oil filter on the engine......Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys....
-Shadow-

 

how sluggish are we talking here? you floor it and it doesnt go, or does it just feel a little slower than usual? but it still idles fine, and doesnt stall out, and you have no CEL.

 

Yes I floor it, and it goes, but it's like it has a major problem with pick up. I checked with a fellow luder that gave the engine a good twist last night, that lives in my area, and he says that the clutch feels ok, the engines revving good, and the idol seems fine, and I trust his judgment. He said that he thinks that the problem could be within the exhaust, pertaining to the cat converter possibly being clogged, or a leak in the exhaust system. Are there any key areas that I should check when seeking out exhaust issues for the 4th gen H213, or to be redundant, is the 4th gen. lude notorious for specific problems with exhaust and power loss issues....including the cat?
Thanks.....

 

ok, do you have a helmes? if you do go to chapter 11, page 49 and follow the troublshooting codes for low power. if you have all that covered then its all in your head .

I dont really know how a cat would get clogged to begin with but i guess anything is possible. it is one of the options.

 

I have a manual that's in pdf format....I'm not sure if it's a "Helms" though. I went to 11-49 and it was talking about the pgm-fi system. Do they still have a free helms manual somewhere out there? The pdf manual that I have was purchased off of ebay.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluedlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont really know how a cat would get clogged to begin with but i guess anything is possible. it is one of the options.</TD></TR></TABLE>

catalytic converters clog all the time. the catalyst eventually starts breaking down from the heat and will somewhat meld itself into blockage.

check this out