what do u think? reliability, price, jacksonracing? worth it?

 

turbo>supercharger, especially in an fwd car.

 

what about smog n stuff? i live in ca... sc seems easier to install. turbos fine but price difference too. reliability issues? cant really boost that much anyway right?

 

What motor are you running, and what is the mileage?

 

 

it just has a d15 non vtec, so just looking for an easy way to bump up power without swapping.

 

They are reliable and cheap, plus they come with a CARB sticker. They have two problems:

The JR units only flow so much air efficiently, look at Eaton's site for compressor maps for the blowers. Just like a turbo, if you run it too far outside the efficiency range of its compressor, then it will blow some very hot air and not make much power. Stick to 6-7 PSI and they generally work fine, make 11 PSI on a stock blower and you may have problems. The compressors can be modified to flow more air, but it's not cheap.


At full-throttle/full-boost, the SC assembly produces more heat than it can dissipate. This isn't a problem for daily driving or quick stuff like the 1/4 mile, because you aren't really in it for more than a few seconds at a time, but if you track one it will heat soak quickly. The heat-soak issue is also fixable, but that's not cheap either.

 

Good luck on that, we just did a Jackson Racing on a Z6, clearances are non exhistant wiring around there is a nightmare no room to fix anything, the alternator was sparking until we cut a peice of rubber to space it out, It pulls hard and is fun, But the amount of bs and belt problems as well would make me NEVER do it again

 

If you live in CA and have a honda you need to get a CARB legal turbo kit.

Turbo > super

(There's a reason the worlds fastest car has 4 turbos and not 4 superchargers )

 

so the hassle aint worth it.. maybe thats why so many ppl are selling theres

 

You are much better off with a D16z6 or an OBD1 B18b1. If you are going to s/c a motor I would think about turbo first. Greddy and Edelbrock both make CARB cert kits and I have heard that DRAG does as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you live in CA and have a honda you need to get a CARB legal turbo kit.

Turbo &gt; super

(There's a reason the worlds fastest car has 4 turbos and not 4 superchargers )</TD></TR></TABLE>
So because turboes make more power than superchargers, now there better?... or is it because you say so?

 

Ok before this turns into a huge debate, why dont you tell us how much a SC costs for one and how much whp you make?


Honest question.

 

I don't remember how much my JRSC cost, it's for a B-series and I got it used years ago, but the power is okay at 8 PSI:

 

nice numbers... how much did all of that run?

 

Nice stuff

 

I really don't remember, but it was not cheap. I built it for road racing, I made a thread about it here:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1518026

The real limitation of that setup was the belt, there's only so much air that you can move with a 4-rib belt driving the blower. The pistons in that motor were also crap, custom JE's that were improperly spec'd. I used them anyway, didn't feel like waiting on new ones, but they had way too much compression and way too little quench, a bad combo.


I'm working on a new supercharger setup now, documenting it here:

https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1

This one should be a lot of fun.


For a DD that you want to run a few PSI of boost to and make an extra 40 WHP, the stock kit is nice, $2K complete (brand new from the manufacturer), reliable, and won't blow your **** up. Personally I like the instant torque for daily driving, even a little turbo takes time to spool up, but to each their own. ET's will not be as good as a turbo, but autocross times will be better, so it all depends on what you're into.

 

can u show me wherei can get a complete kit for a 99 civic si. its a b16a2

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stock99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can u show me wherei can get a complete kit for a 99 civic si. its a b16a2</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.prostreetonline.com is probably your best bet for cheap performance turbo kits (complete). My friend put a turbo specialties turbo on his F23 and he loves it.

A turbo's a turbo when you get down to it - obviously on an ebay turbo the welds tend to break and the turbo seizes up 'n **** - but when you're talking amongst high end street kits such as turbonetics, greddy, or edelbrock, it's all kinda what you prefer.

Though I feel with the 3 I listed above you pay quite some $ for the name.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by underdog_racer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the hassle aint worth it.. maybe thats why so many ppl are selling theres</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hrm, I didn't know so many pple were selling theirs. Superchargers aren't great on 1.6L engines if you're looking to make optimum power, though they are great (unless they're a roots supercharger) for a more "naturally aspired torque curve."

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rad! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So because turboes make more power than superchargers, now there better?... or is it because you say so? </TD></TR></TABLE>

It depends, on a civic? Most times they are better assuming it's a single charge setup. Superchargers aren't meant for displacement.

Example: I was watching a show the other night on blowers and they were talking about the blower they were using in their track car - which took 300hp just to spin the pulley so the supercharger would push air.

So if you put that on a civic you'd first have to use low compression pistons to make 300 naturally aspired HP before that supercharger could even spool (or the car could even move). Can you make 300hp all motor (no nitrous) with ~7:1 CR? I can't. Though most superchargers aren't that high to get a spool out of them - the theory remains sound - you need so much power to pull them - your total whp and wheel lb/ft tq. gets dragged down, that's why usually at around 8psi a super charger only makes around 150 at the wheels on a civic (disregarding trim sizes here) while the turbo makes around mayibe 170...and the numbers split as they go higher. That's just a generalization for most mid-size street turbos.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turbo&gt;supercharger, especially in an fwd car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Which wheels spin doesn't have much to do with it. It's simply that turbo &gt; supercharger in a low displacement application - such as a civic, prelude, accord, RSX, or integra.

They're generally not very powerful on 4 bangers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rad! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So because turboes make more power than superchargers, now there better?... or is it because you say so? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Turbo's have more potential and tuning abilities than Superchargers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97Ej6mike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Turbo's have more potential and tuning abilities than Superchargers on low displacement applications.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Fixed*

 

Thanks for saving me the hassle guys. "Rad" trolls me now.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rad! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So because turboes make more power than superchargers, now there better?... or is it because you say so? </TD></TR></TABLE>

They have their advantages and disadvantages. For small displacement engine builders who don't have track day cars, turbo's are cheaper/easier/more common and have a larger community to work with.

I'm willing to be that a vast majority of small displacement car tuners use turbos instead of sc's for the reasons that syndacate explained.

 

With all due respect to Syndacate, he's trying to make some good points, the problem with the supercharger information here is that the points offered are generalizations that are based on specific setups, mostly JRSC setups. As such, they are not generally true, although some of them may be true about the specific setups that they reference. It's like the story about the blind men and the elephant.

Like turbochargers, superchargers take a percentage of an engines power to run a compressor. SC's take the power from a belt, turbos take it by making the engine push against elevated exhaust pressures. If they push a little bit of air, they take a little bit of power, if they push a lot, they take a lot.

In the example of the SC that takes 300 HP to turrn over, how much power does it produce by the time that it takes 300 HP to turn? If it's making 1000 HP at the time, then 300 HP isn't a problem. No supercharger takes 300 HP just to turn over unloaded (I can easily turn a 1471 blower off of a 6-second drag car by hand, and that's a HUGE blower), but one can take 300 HP if it is pushing enough air, but the air that it is pushing makes several times that much HP, so it isn't a problem to turn it.

Superchargers have compressor maps, just like turbos. If people did the basics before they undertook any type of FI setup, like mapping their requirements across the compressor map of the SC or turbo that they are considering, then they'd see that an Eaton M45 (the SC in the JRSC D-series kit) will maybe push 18 lbs/min of air before efficiency drops below 60% and it's pressure ratio sweet spot only goes as high as around 1.4 (about 6 PSI) before efficiency falls rapidly. Contrast that with a turbo like a GT2860RS, which can push 37 lbs/min at pressure ratios of 2 or more, and it's easy to see which setup to use for a particular application.

I have a SC on my kitchen table that's 82% efficient pushing 52 lbs/min of air at a 2.22 PR, it's compact, lightweight, and should work well with a 4-cyl. I paid about $1000 for it. I think that it will work fine making over 400 WHP out of a low displacement motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stock99si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can u show me wherei can get a complete kit for a 99 civic si. its a b16a2</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're asking about a JRSC, then:

http://www.supercharger.com/Sh...33371

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShortyzKustomz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good luck on that, we just did a Jackson Racing on a Z6, clearances are non exhistant wiring around there is a nightmare no room to fix anything, the alternator was sparking until we cut a peice of rubber to space it out, It pulls hard and is fun, But the amount of bs and belt problems as well would make me NEVER do it again</TD></TR></TABLE>

if the alternator was hitting the frame rail it tells you before you put it in to "massage" the frame rail for clearance and future belt changes.