i have koni yellow sports and ground control coilovers with 8" 450in/lbs springs on the front with ground control extended top hats. i have been driving around and have noticed that even with the extended tophats and with the shock sitting a bit lower in the damper fork then normal, i still hit the bump stops. the car isnt very low at all, fender lip sits probably about 1-1.5" from the tire. is there anything else i can do to get a little bit more travel from the shock without having a monster truck?

also, for some reason, my front passenger side sits lower than the driver side. the shocks are sitting the the damper fork at equal levels, everything is installed properly. but where the perch sits on the sleeve on the passenger side is pretty close to as high up on the sleeve i can get it where as the driver side perch is about in the middle of the sleeve. i dont have a crazy amount of weight on the passenger side and everything is installed and seated properly. anyone know why this is and a way to possible fix it?

any help is greatly appreciated. i really dont want to autox hitting the bump stops at every turn and possibly wear the shocks out long before normal

thanks!


Modified by civexspeedy at 5:47 PM 9/1/2007

 

did you cut your bump stops? i'd imagine you would bottom out by having the tire hit the inner fender rather than the strut hitting the bump stop

 

x2 thats what happened to my car, the fender liner was worn away in the middle channel and i had to raise up my car, im running 550 lb/in Front and 450 lb/in Rear on my 99 si. by any chance are you running a front camber kit? the arms could be hitting the underside of the shock towers.

 

Something is wrong here.

With the GC upper mounts, the stock upper control arm should be hitting the frame before the damper bottoms out - unless that is only true for the EF chassis?

How long are your bump-stops, and are you using the one supplied with the GC upper mounts? Do you have any photos of the ride height?

By the way, you won't "wear out" a damper by hitting the bump-stop. The entire reason it is there is to protect the damper from bottoming out internally and damaging the internals.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Something is wrong here.

With the GC upper mounts, the stock upper control arm should be hitting the frame before the damper bottoms out - unless that is only true for the EF chassis?

How long are your bump-stops, and are you using the one supplied with the GC upper mounts? Do you have any photos of the ride height?

By the way, you won't "wear out" a damper by hitting the bump-stop. The entire reason it is there is to protect the damper from bottoming out internally and damaging the internals.</TD></TR></TABLE>

its not really bottoming out i guess, just that the shock body is hitting the bump stop when it seems like it shouldnt, atleast i would think. im using the bump stops that GC gave with their extended top hats, which i havnt cut at all. ill try to get some pictures later, pictures willll also show my sleeve/ride height issue very clearly.

 

i took a closer look just a few mins ago at the bump stops. seems like they may actually not be hitting the shock/mount, it if is its probably not to bad. the reason i thought they were riding the bump stops is because the bump stops keep getting stuck on the thick part inbetween the stem and the shaft.

with the car lifted, see the bump stop hanging up there.


still tho, im puzzled as to why the perches on the ground controls are at different heights when the car sits even on both sides. i measured from the tip of the sleeve to the bottom edge of the perch, the driver side is 3.5" from end to end and the passenger side is only 2.5". u can see in the pics what i mean.
passenger side

driver side

not an exact way of measuring, i measure the heights with a measuring tape but this is just for quick reference. both sides are a good 2 finger gap.

here the coilovers.
passenger side. 2.5" from top of sleeve to bottom edge of perch.

driver side. 3.5" from top of sleeve to bottom edge of perch.

and like i said, the shocks are sitting at equal lengths inside the damper fork and the snap rings are both at the same level. any ideas as to why the passenger side coilover has to be up 1" higher than the driver side for the car to sit even?

any help is very appreciated. thanks!

 

no way any bottoming out is going on with that setup.

As far as the uneven height that is because the car doesn't weight the same same every corner so it will be different.

It was like that stock too, must just never notice it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As far as the uneven height that is because the car doesn't weight the same same every corner so it will be different.

It was like that stock too, must just never notice it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

but if it is because of the weight, shouldnt the driver side perch be close to the top of the sleeve and the passenger side towards the middle of the sleeve? for some reason its the opposite way, lower ride height/higher perch level on the passenger side, higher ride height/lower perch level on the driver side. just has me scratching me head lol.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civexspeedy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i took a closer look just a few mins ago at the bump stops. seems like they may actually not be hitting the shock/mount, it if is its probably not to bad. the reason i thought they were riding the bump stops is because the bump stops keep getting stuck on the thick part inbetween the stem and the shaft.

with the car lifted, see the bump stop hanging up there.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's the point of it. The bump stop is supposed to tuck up into the upper mount.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still tho, im puzzled as to why the perches on the ground controls are at different heights when the car sits even on both sides. i measured from the tip of the sleeve to the bottom edge of the perch, the driver side is 3.5" from end to end and the passenger side is only 2.5".</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you sure both front springs are 8"? Are you sure you don't have one 7" and one 8" spring?

Keep in mind that all four corners will not be set at the exact same height when the car is sitting level. However, your variance is excessive.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Are you sure both front springs are 8"? Are you sure you don't have one 7" and one 8" spring?

Keep in mind that all four corners will not be set at the exact same height when the car is sitting level. However, your variance is excessive.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, when i installed the top hats(got the top hats a week after installing the suspension), i took apart everything, examined all the parts, and measured the spring heights decompressed. both are 8" and everything matches up. i know the corners wont be even, but i think 1" difference between the perch heights is alot. i guess the main question would be if this would affect anything, durability and possibly handling wise? as far as i can tell, the car handles just fine. i'd just feel more comfortable knowing everything is where it should be..

 

i just took the front suspension off again(both sides). measured and double checked every piece. everything is the same, everything is installed the same, everything is installed correctly. put it down and still leaning on the passenger side...im completely clueless as to why, just dosnt make any sense. im just gena adjust the heights so both sides are even from the ground and leave it be, nothing i can think of that could be causing it...

thanks for the help/input everyone!

 

any help is greatly appreciated. i really dont want to autox hitting the bump stops at every turn and possibly wear the shocks out long before normal




sell them and procure some real suspension...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any help is greatly appreciated. i really dont want to autox hitting the bump stops at every turn and possibly wear the shocks out long before normal




sell them and procure some real suspension...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
2812s are almost $800 per corner . . . 8041s are about half of that for all four

 

how's the level on the rear shocks?

are the lengths of the compressed springs equal on both sides?


Modified by beanbag at 4:29 AM 9/2/2007

 

As mentioned above, check your rear spriing perches as I think that it nis likely that your front is jacked around becasue your rear is too. That of the car is severly unibody twisted. You should try to get the car on some corner scales if it continues to baffle you as that will really tell if there is something strange about the car or if you just have your adjustments all messed up.

You have a perfectly good street and light track set-up, you have no need for any other dampers until you go dedicated track racing with much higher rates and even then your KONI Sports can be revalved as well. Normally your bump rubbers will tuck up into your GC upper mounts and normally the increased diameter of the welded ring near the top of the piston rod will hold the bump rubber into position. Don't worry about occaisionally hitting the bump rubber a bit, that is what it is there for. If the car lives constantly on the bump rubbers, then you need to raise the car or raise the spring rates or both.

If the parts are correctly installed, I think there is just something about the adjustments that is out of whack.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
sell them and procure some real suspension...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow. That's a great example of classy and convincing salesmanship. Your sound, logical explanation is unargueable.

Back on topic: get the car on some scales and sort out the corner weights/ride height. That should solve your problem

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As mentioned above, check your rear spriing perches as I think that it nis likely that your front is jacked around becasue your rear is too. That of the car is severly unibody twisted. You should try to get the car on some corner scales if it continues to baffle you as that will really tell if there is something strange about the car or if you just have your adjustments all messed up.

You have a perfectly good street and light track set-up, you have no need for any other dampers until you go dedicated track racing with much higher rates and even then your KONI Sports can be revalved as well. Normally your bump rubbers will tuck up into your GC upper mounts and normally the increased diameter of the welded ring near the top of the piston rod will hold the bump rubber into position. Don't worry about occaisionally hitting the bump rubber a bit, that is what it is there for. If the car lives constantly on the bump rubbers, then you need to raise the car or raise the spring rates or both.

If the parts are correctly installed, I think there is just something about the adjustments that is out of whack.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the rear is perfectly fine, everything sits right where it should be and no problems at all. i've checked all the other suspension comonents on the front of the car and everything seems to be just great. i may try to switch the springs on the front, switch the sleeves, switch the shocks, try out the different components and see if theres any difference.

as far as the Koni/GC handles, i could not be any happier. i had my first autox with them today and man it was an amazing feeling. took me a while to get used to the tail swinging out but getting on the throttle straightened it out almost instantly and very smoothly. car when right where i wanted it to, i love it. i took a couple of my team mates for a ride and they instantly could feel the difference. im thinking ill be leaving the shocks where they are now and then later on i may have them rebuilt and possibly test out some different spring rates. as of now, its an amazing street/autox setup i think.

i sure as hell give it a big

i dont know anyone with corner scales, tho ill ask around. either that or buy the set since my team has been considering in splitting the cost/use.

thanks for all the help everyone!

 

you don't need corner scales. You can tell the corner weights just from the compressed length of the springs. That's with the sway bars disconnected. I also suggest you try swapping your front left and right springs

 

That's a great example of classy and convincing salesmanship

I'm not selling chit, just stating fact.

CW'ing the kar is a great idea, but I've seen many cracked sleeves and blown shocks to not say something.

Cheers,


P.S. Don't forget, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's a great example of classy and convincing salesmanship

I'm not selling chit, just stating fact.

CW'ing the kar is a great idea, but I've seen many cracked sleeves and blown shocks to not say something.

Cheers,


P.S. Don't forget, I have no idea what I'm talking about.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would like to see a cracked sleeve from a GC coil over, that was installed properly.


As for the blown shock, i can blow any shock out there if i tried hard enough.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would like to see a cracked sleeve from a GC coil over, that was installed properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have to say that my Ground Control sleeves and Koni 8041-Sports certainly out-lived the Eibach ERS they came with (broken coil after 3 years/30,000 miles) . . .

 

are the circlips on the shocks installed in the same position? as in both on the top groove or both on the bottom?

I once had a car where there was a big difference in the coilover position from the front left and right sides, and it turned out the rear subframe was bent and the passenger rear lower control arm mounting point was .5" higher than the driver side. wasn't enough to be very noticeable from just looking at it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike-y &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are the circlips on the shocks installed in the same position? as in both on the top groove or both on the bottom?

I once had a car where there was a big difference in the coilover position from the front left and right sides, and it turned out the rear subframe was bent and the passenger rear lower control arm mounting point was .5" higher than the driver side. wasn't enough to be very noticeable from just looking at it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I was thinking too. My Konis came from the factory with the circlip on one in the higher position... it looks like what is going on to me. The circlip is a flat ring that fits tightly around the koni shock body, and the GC sleeve rests on it. The konis will have two or three different 'grooves' in which the circlip can rest, allowing you to extend the range of the GC sleeves in one direction or the other.

The Koni instructions say to cut the bumpstops down some dont they?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's a great example of classy and convincing salesmanship

I'm not selling chit, just stating fact.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And if he had asked what type of shock to buy, I'm sure you wouldn't have had any suggestions, eh? FWIW, just b/c you aren't a shock dealer doesn't mean you are "selling" a product or brand.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CW'ing the kar is a great idea, but I've seen many cracked sleeves and blown shocks to not say something.

Cheers,


P.S. Don't forget, I have no idea what I'm talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I haven't seen/heard of any properly installed sleeves cracking or quickly blown Koni shocks I'm sure it's a possibility but quite unlikely. Now if you want to talk about Advance Design, then yeah, I've seen them go from fresh out of the box to blown pieces of chit in one race weekend. But hey, at least they're "real" race shocks right?

Christian

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's what I was thinking too. My Konis came from the factory with the circlip on one in the higher position... it looks like what is going on to me. The circlip is a flat ring that fits tightly around the koni shock body, and the GC sleeve rests on it. The konis will have two or three different 'grooves' in which the circlip can rest, allowing you to extend the range of the GC sleeves in one direction or the other.

The Koni instructions say to cut the bumpstops down some dont they?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the snap rings are all at the same position. i've even measured the grooves on the Koni's to make sure they were at the same height on the shocks and they match. like i said i've taken apart eveything a couple times and measured everything numerous times, its all lined up and installed the way its supposed to be. yes, Koni's instructions do say to cut the original bump stops a little bit, but i have Ground Controls extended top hats which come with new bump stops and i figure its probably best not to cut them.