My first HPDE event at Pocono Raceway (Pics and thoughts)
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Will you make something up for me please?
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From: SoCal
My first HPDE event at Pocono Raceway (Pics and thoughts)
Cross posted in S2000 forum
My co-worker (Dan) and I both attended our first NASA/PDA HPDE event at Pocono Raceway this past Saturday (8/25/07). Registration started at 7:00am. Luckily Dan arrived early and got a nice spot under the garage area in the shade. I can't imagine spending most of the day under direct sunlight. I felt bad for my girlfriend who was there with me, as she was out in the sun taking pictures of us while we were out on course.
Saturday's HPDE session was on the South Course of the Raceway. Pictured below:
See below for pictures/explanations:
My co-worker Dan and my 2007 GPW S2000. Minimal mods are as follows: Espelir Active Super Down springs, Cusco front strut bar, OEM lip. Complete with a nail in the left rear tire and no alignment. Haha.
Nice Porsche 944 parked near us.
This was inside the garage area opposite ours. Most of the competition cars, as well as the instrutor cars, were in this area. I liked the orange car, I guess it's some sort of wide bodied 280Z? Was pretty loud.
A very modified Subaru STI. Driver was very nice, and gave me a pretty nice description of his car. Notice the 9-million point roll cage inside.
A Chevy Nascar? It was very loud, but surprisingly not that quick. Most of the Z06's passed it on the straights. I think it may have been simply testing and tuning that day. Many of the other competition cars were actually running a race/time trial.
A "kit" car sold by this company called Diasio. There's an RX-8 rotary engine in the rear, coupled to a sequential transmission. Also a very nice owner, explained quite a bit about the car. Body was all fiberglass, and the frame is ~2.5 inches from the ground. The front lip of the car is 2 inches from the ground.
The next few cars are in the competition class. I heard some really loud cars out on course so I ran to grab my camera. This car was probably the 3rd fastest out there that day. Not sure what model Porsche it was. There was a GT3 and some sort of early generation wide-bodied Porsche that was louder.
The crazy STI pictured earlier right behind the Home Depot Corvette. Actually, it's not the Home Depot Vette, but it looks like it. Same color, and lots of tacked on parts (at least it appeared so). Both very fast.
Porsche car again behind (I think) a Sentra?
Line of HPDE 1 cars in the grid ready to go. Dan's car was the 3rd car from the left (BMW 325i) and mine's also in the row back there. We were waiting to be matched up with our instructor for the day. My instructor's car was the E46 M3 in the foreground.
Rounding the last turn before hitting the Super Speedway portion (banked area).
Catching up on the track ready 328is using my 3rd gear Vtack!
Dan's car rounding same turn as above.
Catching up to a suprisingly slow Corvette (non-Z06). Later found out that the guy was very nervous.
OMG, Hi2u!!! >_<
Another S2000 I spotted there. Spoke to him a little bit. It's an AP1 with a fiberglass Mugen top, 18" wheels, and a CF lip. He was in the competition class I believe. His username is Kamikazee on http://www.s2ki.com, same as his license plate.
I had to get a shot of the one car that was faster than me. The 350Z was pretty quick on both the Super Speedway portion and the infield turns. I didn't speak to the driver, but I could hear that it had an aftermarket intake, and some sort of built in bumpder duct for the intake.
Thoughts:
Before I begin, I must stress that I am a newbie to HPDE and driving events. Many of my comments are probably pretty basic sounding to some of you, so forgive me. On the other hand, I was pretty damn excited and had a lot of fun....so deal with it.
We started the day with registration, tech inspecting the cars, and classroom instruction. The fee for the day was $240 (plus $40 for NASA yearly membership, and a Grassroots Motorsports magazine subscription). Tech was new to me, and I didn't know you had to empty absolutely EVERYTHING from your car, even your floormats! I didn't like that I would have to put my feet (and have my instructor put his feet) on the bare carpet. Oh well. My co-worker's BMW was flagged for a bent rim. Luckily he had a full sized spare ready to go. I passed with no issues.
The classroom sessions, in my opinion, didn't do me much good. There were some basic safety talks and some terminology explained. These included turn in, apex, track out, understeer, oversteer, etc. I knew all of these already. I did learn a lot about what each flag meant, as there are about 5 or so.
The first session out on the track was just a drive-through to learn the course. The instructor got in the driver's seat and took me around the track. They showed me where the turn in, apex, track out, and braking zone cones were.
Unfortunately, there was a shortage of instructors so we came in and my instructor got in another car, while I followed them in my car. I thought it would be fine, but as soon as I started driving, I realized how wrong my lines were. I definitely needed an instructor of my own. Later, I went to the registration area and requested one, and I did get one. Kudos to them.
The next few sessions, I was the driver while my instructor sat along side. I was surprised how much following the correct line could make me so dramatically faster. What I thought would take me/the car longer to pass turned out to be the fastest line around a corner. Initially, I was VERY nervous so I didn't shift too smoothly, plus I only used 3rd and 4th gears. Even on the hairpin, I stayed in 3rd bogging around the turn. On the Super Speedway portion (17 degree bank), I stayed in 3rd and didn't surpass ~80-85mph. My hands got so incredibly sweaty that I was afraid it would slip on the wheel. However, my instructor was VERY impressed with my driving and kept saying "Are you sure you didn't do this before?" I didn't. He said he didn't have to tell me things he had to tell most novice drivers such as to keep both hands on the wheel at all times, rev match downshifts, and keep your head up. Whatever...I was still very nervous and I felt as though I could do better my next time out.
The next session, I told myself beforehand to relax. Turns out, my hands didn't get too sweaty this time. I utilized 2nd gear on the hairpin and followed a GREAT line through until the Super Speedway portion. I gained a LOT of distance and caught up to pretty much every car in the infield portion. I shifted into 4th on the banked area and hit 90+mph. I also turned off the traction control, like my instructor suggested. My issues this session were:
1. I still needed to improve my lines, as I was "cheating" and turning in too early, as my instructor put it.
2. I was too afraid (even on the banked section) to go much faster than 95mph because I felt like I was going to slam into the outer all. My instructor told me not to worry and I was not even close to wiping out, and I could eaily go 30mph faster if I wanted to.
3. I would look at the car in front of me. If that driver follwed a wrong line, I would follow as well. I needed to look PAST the car at the turns/cones ahead.
4. I didn't even notice any flaggers out there, as I was concentrating too much on driving.
On the 3rd session on course, I tried to fix all my above problems. I'm proud to say that I did and I drove significantly better. I hit 105mph on the outer circle,
perfected my lines, and looked past the car in front of me. I passed pretty much every single car out there in my class (except for the 350Z). We were even in the twisty infield, but he was faster on the outer speedway. My instructor said that he was confident that I could drive by myself on the last session and asked me if I wanted to. I said sure.
The 4th and final session on track was probably the best, although I did spin out once. I have a nail in the rear left tire, and it slowly lets out air over the course of 2 weeks or so. I guess the stress/heat of the driving that day accelerated the air loss and turning right hard would cause it to spin very easily. Besides that, I drive just like my 3rd session and felt as if I did very well.
Hope you enjoyed my short story. I may have left out a few details because I had so much in my head. Feel free to ask me anything and I'll try my best to answer. Only things I didn't like were:
1. The incredible heat. It was VERY hot that day.
2. Wish the classroom time was more productive, as I didn't feel I learned anything in there.
3. Cafeteria closed quite early so when I walked the 10 minutes to the cafe, it was closed. I needed water badly.
4. My perfect condition front end was full of melted rubber and bugs. It took a crazy long amount of time last night to clean it all off. Eventually it all did.
My co-worker (Dan) and I both attended our first NASA/PDA HPDE event at Pocono Raceway this past Saturday (8/25/07). Registration started at 7:00am. Luckily Dan arrived early and got a nice spot under the garage area in the shade. I can't imagine spending most of the day under direct sunlight. I felt bad for my girlfriend who was there with me, as she was out in the sun taking pictures of us while we were out on course.
Saturday's HPDE session was on the South Course of the Raceway. Pictured below:
Originally Posted by [url
www.poconoraceway.com[/url]]South Road Course
A 1 mile (actually 1.13) course utilizing the south infield road course and Pocono's high banked turn #1 of the tri-oval. The course has ten turns, including a hairpin,
and three short straights. The course varies in width from 30'-90'.
A 1 mile (actually 1.13) course utilizing the south infield road course and Pocono's high banked turn #1 of the tri-oval. The course has ten turns, including a hairpin,
and three short straights. The course varies in width from 30'-90'.
My co-worker Dan and my 2007 GPW S2000. Minimal mods are as follows: Espelir Active Super Down springs, Cusco front strut bar, OEM lip. Complete with a nail in the left rear tire and no alignment. Haha.
Nice Porsche 944 parked near us.
This was inside the garage area opposite ours. Most of the competition cars, as well as the instrutor cars, were in this area. I liked the orange car, I guess it's some sort of wide bodied 280Z? Was pretty loud.
A very modified Subaru STI. Driver was very nice, and gave me a pretty nice description of his car. Notice the 9-million point roll cage inside.
A Chevy Nascar? It was very loud, but surprisingly not that quick. Most of the Z06's passed it on the straights. I think it may have been simply testing and tuning that day. Many of the other competition cars were actually running a race/time trial.
A "kit" car sold by this company called Diasio. There's an RX-8 rotary engine in the rear, coupled to a sequential transmission. Also a very nice owner, explained quite a bit about the car. Body was all fiberglass, and the frame is ~2.5 inches from the ground. The front lip of the car is 2 inches from the ground.
The next few cars are in the competition class. I heard some really loud cars out on course so I ran to grab my camera. This car was probably the 3rd fastest out there that day. Not sure what model Porsche it was. There was a GT3 and some sort of early generation wide-bodied Porsche that was louder.
The crazy STI pictured earlier right behind the Home Depot Corvette. Actually, it's not the Home Depot Vette, but it looks like it. Same color, and lots of tacked on parts (at least it appeared so). Both very fast.
Porsche car again behind (I think) a Sentra?
Line of HPDE 1 cars in the grid ready to go. Dan's car was the 3rd car from the left (BMW 325i) and mine's also in the row back there. We were waiting to be matched up with our instructor for the day. My instructor's car was the E46 M3 in the foreground.
Rounding the last turn before hitting the Super Speedway portion (banked area).
Catching up on the track ready 328is using my 3rd gear Vtack!
Dan's car rounding same turn as above.
Catching up to a suprisingly slow Corvette (non-Z06). Later found out that the guy was very nervous.
OMG, Hi2u!!! >_<
Another S2000 I spotted there. Spoke to him a little bit. It's an AP1 with a fiberglass Mugen top, 18" wheels, and a CF lip. He was in the competition class I believe. His username is Kamikazee on http://www.s2ki.com, same as his license plate.
I had to get a shot of the one car that was faster than me. The 350Z was pretty quick on both the Super Speedway portion and the infield turns. I didn't speak to the driver, but I could hear that it had an aftermarket intake, and some sort of built in bumpder duct for the intake.
Thoughts:
Before I begin, I must stress that I am a newbie to HPDE and driving events. Many of my comments are probably pretty basic sounding to some of you, so forgive me. On the other hand, I was pretty damn excited and had a lot of fun....so deal with it.
We started the day with registration, tech inspecting the cars, and classroom instruction. The fee for the day was $240 (plus $40 for NASA yearly membership, and a Grassroots Motorsports magazine subscription). Tech was new to me, and I didn't know you had to empty absolutely EVERYTHING from your car, even your floormats! I didn't like that I would have to put my feet (and have my instructor put his feet) on the bare carpet. Oh well. My co-worker's BMW was flagged for a bent rim. Luckily he had a full sized spare ready to go. I passed with no issues.
The classroom sessions, in my opinion, didn't do me much good. There were some basic safety talks and some terminology explained. These included turn in, apex, track out, understeer, oversteer, etc. I knew all of these already. I did learn a lot about what each flag meant, as there are about 5 or so.
The first session out on the track was just a drive-through to learn the course. The instructor got in the driver's seat and took me around the track. They showed me where the turn in, apex, track out, and braking zone cones were.
Unfortunately, there was a shortage of instructors so we came in and my instructor got in another car, while I followed them in my car. I thought it would be fine, but as soon as I started driving, I realized how wrong my lines were. I definitely needed an instructor of my own. Later, I went to the registration area and requested one, and I did get one. Kudos to them.
The next few sessions, I was the driver while my instructor sat along side. I was surprised how much following the correct line could make me so dramatically faster. What I thought would take me/the car longer to pass turned out to be the fastest line around a corner. Initially, I was VERY nervous so I didn't shift too smoothly, plus I only used 3rd and 4th gears. Even on the hairpin, I stayed in 3rd bogging around the turn. On the Super Speedway portion (17 degree bank), I stayed in 3rd and didn't surpass ~80-85mph. My hands got so incredibly sweaty that I was afraid it would slip on the wheel. However, my instructor was VERY impressed with my driving and kept saying "Are you sure you didn't do this before?" I didn't. He said he didn't have to tell me things he had to tell most novice drivers such as to keep both hands on the wheel at all times, rev match downshifts, and keep your head up. Whatever...I was still very nervous and I felt as though I could do better my next time out.
The next session, I told myself beforehand to relax. Turns out, my hands didn't get too sweaty this time. I utilized 2nd gear on the hairpin and followed a GREAT line through until the Super Speedway portion. I gained a LOT of distance and caught up to pretty much every car in the infield portion. I shifted into 4th on the banked area and hit 90+mph. I also turned off the traction control, like my instructor suggested. My issues this session were:
1. I still needed to improve my lines, as I was "cheating" and turning in too early, as my instructor put it.
2. I was too afraid (even on the banked section) to go much faster than 95mph because I felt like I was going to slam into the outer all. My instructor told me not to worry and I was not even close to wiping out, and I could eaily go 30mph faster if I wanted to.
3. I would look at the car in front of me. If that driver follwed a wrong line, I would follow as well. I needed to look PAST the car at the turns/cones ahead.
4. I didn't even notice any flaggers out there, as I was concentrating too much on driving.
On the 3rd session on course, I tried to fix all my above problems. I'm proud to say that I did and I drove significantly better. I hit 105mph on the outer circle,
perfected my lines, and looked past the car in front of me. I passed pretty much every single car out there in my class (except for the 350Z). We were even in the twisty infield, but he was faster on the outer speedway. My instructor said that he was confident that I could drive by myself on the last session and asked me if I wanted to. I said sure.
The 4th and final session on track was probably the best, although I did spin out once. I have a nail in the rear left tire, and it slowly lets out air over the course of 2 weeks or so. I guess the stress/heat of the driving that day accelerated the air loss and turning right hard would cause it to spin very easily. Besides that, I drive just like my 3rd session and felt as if I did very well.
Hope you enjoyed my short story. I may have left out a few details because I had so much in my head. Feel free to ask me anything and I'll try my best to answer. Only things I didn't like were:
1. The incredible heat. It was VERY hot that day.
2. Wish the classroom time was more productive, as I didn't feel I learned anything in there.
3. Cafeteria closed quite early so when I walked the 10 minutes to the cafe, it was closed. I needed water badly.
4. My perfect condition front end was full of melted rubber and bugs. It took a crazy long amount of time last night to clean it all off. Eventually it all did.
Thread Starter
Will you make something up for me please?
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,363
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Re: (Rguy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Convertibles allowed with no roll bars? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Wondered the same thing, and asked around. I called the National and Regional office and they said that HPDE 1 and 2 allow it. After that, you need an aftermarket bar/cage. You DO however need at least rollhoops in HPDE 1 and 2. A base model Miata without them will not be allowed.
Wondered the same thing, and asked around. I called the National and Regional office and they said that HPDE 1 and 2 allow it. After that, you need an aftermarket bar/cage. You DO however need at least rollhoops in HPDE 1 and 2. A base model Miata without them will not be allowed.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 0
From: GO LEAFS GO, NY, USA
Re: (shamoo)
Main thing you should concentrate on for your next session is braking im guessing. Without passing judgement or assuming too much, I'm willing to bet your instructer told you to get on the brakes later and get on them harder.
this is the very first thing that novice's have trouble grasping. don't drive your car like you would on a street! no coasting to redlights or stop signs here....stay on the throttle until its time to be on the brakes. Brake hard, to the point of threshold, find out where that threshold is! Then, its immediatly back onto the throttle to create the mechanical grip. if you're feet are doing the happy dance between clutch/throttle/brake then odds are you're going to get loose either going into or out of the corner. the throttle should be treated as a on/off switch. its either on 100% or off 100% no half throttle when you're on a track!
Hope you had fun out there man, performance driving is a whole nother world. I'm sure you enjoy getting on and off highway/freeway on ramps now that you know the "line" and the apex
remember.....
"turn in too soon.....run out of room!"
I was just at Pocono on the 17-19th...running the full course with infield, I'll post pics!
this is the very first thing that novice's have trouble grasping. don't drive your car like you would on a street! no coasting to redlights or stop signs here....stay on the throttle until its time to be on the brakes. Brake hard, to the point of threshold, find out where that threshold is! Then, its immediatly back onto the throttle to create the mechanical grip. if you're feet are doing the happy dance between clutch/throttle/brake then odds are you're going to get loose either going into or out of the corner. the throttle should be treated as a on/off switch. its either on 100% or off 100% no half throttle when you're on a track!
Hope you had fun out there man, performance driving is a whole nother world. I'm sure you enjoy getting on and off highway/freeway on ramps now that you know the "line" and the apex
remember.....
"turn in too soon.....run out of room!"
I was just at Pocono on the 17-19th...running the full course with infield, I'll post pics!
Thread Starter
Will you make something up for me please?
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,363
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Re: (Mr. Vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Main thing you should concentrate on for your next session is braking im guessing. Without passing judgement or assuming too much, I'm willing to bet your instructer told you to get on the brakes later and get on them harder.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes! Although he only told me once and I got it afterwards. The only place that it was an issue was where the Super Speedway ended and you had to brake before turning into the infield. It wasn't a smooth turn in, so it was hard to determine where to brake and where to start turning.
I was also one of the fastest around the Speedway so I caught up to many people who were braking too early or just not going fast enough. My momentum pushed me to the outerwall as I hit the next turn in point.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hope you had fun out there man, performance driving is a whole nother world. I'm sure you enjoy getting on and off highway/freeway on ramps now that you know the "line" and the apex
remember.....
"turn in too soon.....run out of room!"</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had LOTS of fun. I can't wait to do it again, although it's absolute hell on your car. I've driven HARD before but never as hard as what I put the S2000 through this past Saturday. I'm worried that doing this over and over will hurt it.
Then again, I'm hearing that people are putting almost 100K track-only miles on the car with no issues. My brakes faded a bit and when the tires got hot, traction started to be an issue. That's about it.
"Turn in too soon....run out of room" can't be closer to the truth. I almost went off course when I mistakenly followed the line of the Jetta in front of me. His line was pretty bad and I almost went off course. He didn't because he was going quite a bit slower.
I wish I had done the 2-day HPDE session, but it was basically double the price. I can understand $75-100 more, but not double. The second day, they teach you threshold braking, heel-toeing, and they remove the marker cones on the track.
Yes! Although he only told me once and I got it afterwards. The only place that it was an issue was where the Super Speedway ended and you had to brake before turning into the infield. It wasn't a smooth turn in, so it was hard to determine where to brake and where to start turning.
I was also one of the fastest around the Speedway so I caught up to many people who were braking too early or just not going fast enough. My momentum pushed me to the outerwall as I hit the next turn in point.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hope you had fun out there man, performance driving is a whole nother world. I'm sure you enjoy getting on and off highway/freeway on ramps now that you know the "line" and the apex
remember.....
"turn in too soon.....run out of room!"</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had LOTS of fun. I can't wait to do it again, although it's absolute hell on your car. I've driven HARD before but never as hard as what I put the S2000 through this past Saturday. I'm worried that doing this over and over will hurt it.
Then again, I'm hearing that people are putting almost 100K track-only miles on the car with no issues. My brakes faded a bit and when the tires got hot, traction started to be an issue. That's about it."Turn in too soon....run out of room" can't be closer to the truth. I almost went off course when I mistakenly followed the line of the Jetta in front of me. His line was pretty bad and I almost went off course. He didn't because he was going quite a bit slower.
I wish I had done the 2-day HPDE session, but it was basically double the price. I can understand $75-100 more, but not double. The second day, they teach you threshold braking, heel-toeing, and they remove the marker cones on the track.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Re: My first HPDE event at Pocono Raceway (shamoo)
Water! Bring lots of water with you. Also, a big plastic box to put all the crap in it (nothing allowed in your car) - plastic in case it rains. Extra set of brake pad - in case you really cook your brake and nothing's left to go home with. Oh and one of those camping chair for the waiting around. That's my experience.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,805
Likes: 1
From: building H2 cars, NY
i know a bunch of the nasa-ne/pda instructors (including me) went to summit point this weekend instead of pocono. glad to hear they were able to work it out. sounds like you had a pritty good first HPDE.
Welcome to the dark side!
Welcome to the dark side!
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, CA, USA
Re: (Mr. Vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then, its immediatly back onto the throttle to create the mechanical grip. if you're feet are doing the happy dance between clutch/throttle/brake then odds are you're going to get loose either going into or out of the corner. the throttle should be treated as a on/off switch. its either on 100% or off 100% no half throttle when you're on a track!
remember.....
"turn in too soon.....run out of room!" </TD></TR></TABLE>
Great post on your first track event. As a motorcycle racer and car track day enthusiast, its not always 100% on or off throttle though. When your fighting for traction, or keeping the car/bike inline, then you do sometimes have to modulate the throttle.
Nice clean S2K
remember.....
"turn in too soon.....run out of room!" </TD></TR></TABLE>
Great post on your first track event. As a motorcycle racer and car track day enthusiast, its not always 100% on or off throttle though. When your fighting for traction, or keeping the car/bike inline, then you do sometimes have to modulate the throttle.
Nice clean S2K
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