Hey, I just got home from the shop... Installed some type-r cams.


The idle is kinda "putt putt", and there is a lot of vibration. As I left they said it was just the cams. Wanted to ask around to make sure.

I have a 2000 civic si.

Any ideas?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hgemsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, I just got home from the shop... Installed some type-r cams.


The idle is kinda "putt putt", and there is a lot of vibration. As I left they said it was just the cams. Wanted to ask around to make sure.

I have a 2000 civic si.

Any ideas?</TD></TR></TABLE>

might have to adjust the idle. Unplug the IAC. The car will idle real low and crappy. Turn the flathead screw on the Tb till the car idles at around 600 rpm or so. Turn car off. Replug the IAC in. Turn car on. See if it's any better.

Or the ECU might still be getting used to everything since they probably unplugged the battery. Let it go thru a few drive cycles and maybe it will get better.


Do you have any CELs?

 

No, no CEL lights.

He did tell me not to get on it at all, just milk it home.. Said they have to break in. Wasnt really driving that great... Maybe it is the ECU. When they finished he noticed the low idle, and my car was dieing... So he adjusted the idle while i was still there, I dont think that's it.

edit- also, I was watching him to the valve adjustment.. seemed nice and tight

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hgemsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, no CEL lights.

He did tell me not to get on it at all, just milk it home.. Said they have to break in. Wasnt really driving that great... Maybe it is the ECU. When they finished he noticed the low idle, and my car was dieing... So he adjusted the idle while i was still there, I dont think that's it.

edit- also, I was watching him to the valve adjustment.. seemed nice and tight</TD></TR></TABLE>

well...how did he adjust the idle. did he just jack the screw? or did he go thru the procedure?

 

What was the valve lash set to?
Are you using the stock ecu?
Are you using ITR valve springs or B16?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchSpeeD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What was the valve lash set to?
Are you using the stock ecu?
Are you using ITR valve springs or B16?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, stock ECU... And I'm pretty sure they didn't replace the valve springs, he would have told me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well...how did he adjust the idle. did he just jack the screw? or did he go thru the procedure?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he just jacked the screw... while the car was running.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hgemsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, stock ECU... And I'm pretty sure they didn't replace the valve springs, he would have told me

I think he just jacked the screw... while the car was running.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol was this guy's name cleetus?

You have to use ITR springs. The cams are bigger. The valves need more tension to close in time. You're gonna break something at high RPMs.

Why would he just jack the screw? that doesnt do anything. Follow my procedure. That screw has a computer on the other side of it (so to speak...not literally). You have to reset the IAC parameters...just moving the screw while the ECU is controlling parameters wont do anything. Your ECU just puts the idle back to where it was.

 

Thanks for your help man...

I'll call him in the morning and find out exactly what he put on.


As for the idle, I'll work on it tomorrow and see what I can do. Thanks for your help


I'm leaving tomorrow so I have no need to drive, I'll just stay away from it until I find out if he changed the valve springs or not

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hgemsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, no CEL lights.

He did tell me not to get on it at all, just milk it home.. Said they have to break in. Wasnt really driving that great... Maybe it is the ECU. When they finished he noticed the low idle, and my car was dieing... So he adjusted the idle while i was still there, I dont think that's it.

edit- also, I was watching him to the valve adjustment.. seemed nice and tight</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have to break cams in??? Try tuning your car that might help.

 

I really run the risk of breaking somehting? I havent hit vtec with them in yet.... Now I'm scared. Haha

 

Im not sure how a stock valvetrain in a B16 can handle a type R cam, but yes you might be able to really mess something up.

 

As far as I know, B16 springs should be fine with the FACTORY ecu. Don't bring it past 8200rpms. Other than a rough idle, does the car run fine? I don't think tuning is the issue. I was running ITR cams with around 12-1 compression on a P30 for 6 months, idled fine. Not healthly for the motor....
but with ITR cams, shouldnt affect idle. I'd say check valve lash, cam timing, ignition timing...so on.


Modified by HatchSpeeD at 3:21 AM 8/24/2007

 

I think i'd still use ITR springs. The B16A springs were meant to close the valves based on B16 cam specs. Stock B16A ECUS rev to 8400-8500RPM....that's only 200-300 rpm off from an ITR. I'd get the springs.

8400 RPM = Piston moving up and down 140 times every second. a pair of valves open and close 70 times a second. 70 times a second is fast. Everything is timed within nanoseconds to keep the piston from hitting the valve.

Again...I'd get the springs.

 

Your stock springs will work just fine, just keep your stock redline (~8200) otherwise your motor will be more inclined to float a valve; don't listen to all these people telling you you need to upgrade valvesprings. I recommend you get your car tuned (Checkout PGMFI.Org for more information on CROME, Uberdata, Neptune, and Hondata). If your valvelash is off your camshafts will be ticking like you have a rod knock, but that wont affect your lumpy idle. TUNE TUNE, and RETUNE!

If you're in So CAL go ahead and hit me up and I'll help you out with whatever you need.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Equilibrium &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your stock springs will work just fine, just keep your stock redline (~8200) otherwise your motor will be more inclined to float a valve; don't listen to all these people telling you you need to upgrade valvesprings. I recommend you get your car tuned (Checkout PGMFI.Org for more information on CROME, Uberdata, Neptune, and Hondata). If your valvelash is off your camshafts will be ticking like you have a rod knock, but that wont affect your lumpy idle. TUNE TUNE, and RETUNE!

If you're in So CAL go ahead and hit me up and I'll help you out with whatever you need.</TD></TR></TABLE>

again....b16 stock fuel cut is not 8200. Its more like 8400ish-8500ish

 

hmmm, well.... Lol, I'll call the shop tomorrow and see what they say.

thank you for the help everyone...

As far as tuning, how much $$ am I lookin at? Just spend like 300 on a new alarm, about to spend more on a KS

 

If KS = killswitch:

You're about to spend more on a kill switch? it costs a few dollars to buy a switch from a local store. Besides that and a couple feet of wire, how much are you really spending?

 

alarms are overrated. how often do you hear someone say "oh honey look a car alarm is on. let's call the police"

lol. gl with the car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

again....b16 stock fuel cut is not 8200. Its more like 8400ish-8500ish</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think your missing the point here. The ITR valvetrain is only built up to sustain higher revs. It can also run a bigger cam if needed. As long as he doesnt change his redline and keeps it at the stock rev limiter he should be fine. The B16 valvetrain can handle a bigger cam just like the ITR. If not then companys like buddyclub wouldnt be able to sell cams and say "Works with stock valvetrain." Its not like the ITR cam is that aggresive.

 

Im pretty sure b16 valvetrain with itr valvetrain is just fine. FYI fuel cut is not the same as redline...fuel cut=rev limiter, red line=where the red on your tach starts.

 

Most poeple would just say Fuel cut = redline. My fuel cut is set at 9500 so most of the time I would just say my car redlines at 9500. Keep things simple.

 

you need to go OBD1 to get your car tuned, so you're looking at 150 for a chipped ECU, 70 for a conversion harness, and ~100 for a decent tune. I can hook you up if you're interested; me and my homies have been in the honda game for 8 years and running (Plus I've never blown one motor )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Equilibrium &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your stock springs will work just fine, just keep your stock redline (~8200) otherwise your motor will be more inclined to float a valve; don't listen to all these people telling you you need to upgrade valvesprings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I second this motion.

ITR cams aren't a huge cam upgrade from 2nd gen B16 cams; Toda spec A or B's are on the other hand and require valve spring upgrading as a comparison contrast. 2nd gen B16 valve springs can handle up to 8500rpm safely and plus you're not holding the needle at 8500rpm for very long anyways...a split second maybe if that?

I'm betting your cam installer either set the valve lash too tight or didn't line up the cam & crank timing correctly. This might **** him off but let him know there only has to be a SLIGHT drag on the feeler gauge when removing it from between the rocker pad & cam lobe.

Also let him know the intake is .006/.007 & exhaust is .008

 

Agreed smileycvc, Redline is the threshold where your motor stops making power and you start to put strain on your motor instead of making power. Fuelcut is normally within 500 rpms of that point to keep your car in its highest point of Powerband.

 

Back to the OP original problem- I would guess ignition timing or cam timing or the timing belt is of by a tooth