EDIT: Additional question. If I bring a guest/passenger (my girlfriend), is there an "admission" fee for her if she doesn't drive? Looking at the schedule, there seems to be some classroom time. I assume she can't sit in since she didn't pay. Will it be quite boring for her?

Good afternoon, this is my first post in this forum. I tried to search, but wasn't sure what keywords to use.

I will be attending my first NASA/HPDE event this upcoming Saturday at the Pocono Raceway (https://www.nasaproracing.com/nasa_e.../?event_id=448).

I will be driving my 07 S2000 at the event, and I wanted to know what issues I need to worry about. The following is the "Important Note" on the website:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NASA Pro Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Important Note: For in depth rules for HPDE participation please download the Club Codes and Regulations (CCR) to get specifications on racing harnesses, seats, roll bar, and other safety related items. As a general rule, an "unmodified" factory vehicle will pass tech without any problems, but cars that have been modified (seats, roll bars, belts, etc) must conform to the preparation rules listed in the rulebook.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My car is a convertible, obviously, but it doesn't have "roll bars." It has a roll hoop and that's it. Will it pass tech inspection? My car is not modified in any way except having a random Cusco STB and being lowered on Espelir springs.

I'm very excited and hope this is the first step of MANY events I will be attending in the future. Thanks in advance for any help.





Modified by shamoo at 12:50 PM 8/22/2007

 

make sure you pass the broomstick test. sit in your car with your helmet on. put a broomstick between the top of the windshield and the rollhoop. if your not at least an inch below, your in trouble.

 

or go borrow a hardtop asap

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">make sure you pass the broomstick test. sit in your car with your helmet on. put a broomstick between the top of the windshield and the rollhoop. if your not at least an inch below, your in trouble.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, I will try this when I go home. I have an old motorcycle helmet, but it says that it won't be allowed. Hmm. We'll see.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by APEX CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">or go borrow a hardtop asap</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unfortunately, I won't be able to acquire one. I don't know anyone else that has an S2000.

I did a bit more research on the site and saw this. It "MAY" fulfill this requirement. I guess this is what you guys mean by doing the "broomstick" test?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HPDE: Rollover Protection &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
NASA’s High Performance Driving Events (HPDE) are a very safe way to learn how to handle your car and drive the line on the race track. These events are not designed to teach you how to race, there are other schools that will teach this. All you need to run a HPDE event is your car (in good condition) and a helmet. In a convertible, you will also need to have a roll bar. This roll bar must be strong enough to withstand the forces of compression involved in supporting the full weight of the car. A factory roll bar such as those found on a Honda S2000 may fulfill this requirement, but “style bars” or “show bars” found on some other cars would not work. (If you have a question about your car, call the NASA office.) Road racing with NASA requires a full cage (defined as 6 or more mounting points). </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

does NASA allow the S2000 into HPDE's in OEM condition? I know many groups do not.. something about the roll hoops not integrated into the frame properly or something..?

 

Okay, a simple phone call confirmed. The national office in CA stated that they regularly allow OEM S2000's to run in their groups. They recommended that I call my regional office. I did and....

If I run novice class (HPDE1), my car will pass no problem.

Now comes the other issue of finding a helmet. They said that motorcycle helmets are not allowed. Hmm, do they have spare helmets at the track for rent/use?

 

If you want a good, inexpensive SA rated helmet, look at Pyrotect. Sorry, I don't have a spare or know anyone that does. Actually, I may know someone if you're intersted in buying a Pyrotect. He used it a few times before he stopped doing track events.

I know NASA TX allows OEM S2000s to run in all the HPDE groups.

 

since when are motorcycle helmets not allowed?!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NASA CCR: HPDE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use a proper fitting helmet that meets Snell 1990 (SA1990; M1990) or newer (or equivalent) standards for cars or motorcycles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

youll be fine with a motorcycle helmet. they pass the same impact standards as SA helmets as applicable to your car.

 

i'm not sure if nasa/pda has loaners. give them a call and find out. as for motorcycle helmets not being legal for on-track usage, it is a newer thing that the clubs have integrated in with the SNELL 95s becomming out of date. in short, motorcycle helmets are not designed for what we're doing. period.
M-tested for single impact, no fire retardent liner
SA-tested for multiple impacts, fire retardent liner.
there not trying to screw you. there trying to keep you safe in the event of an incident. remember, you can wreck just as hard in hpde as you can racing.

as for the s2ks, some tracks dont allow ANY drop tops on track w/o an aftermarket rollbar.
wgi
lrp

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
M-tested for single impact, no fire retardent liner
SA-tested for multiple impacts, fire retardent liner.</TD></TR></TABLE>

false.

read the snell handbook before you pontificate mythology.

 

These are the differences:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?

The SA standard was designed for competitive auto racing while M standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. The K standard was released to accommodate helmets used in karting. There are three major differences between them:
- The SA standard requires flammability test while the M and K standards do not.
- The SA and K standards allow for a narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA and K certified helmets may not be street legal).
- The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi impact test while M standard does not. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do be careful with the S2K. They handle awesome, but when pushed beyond its limit it does snap around pretty quickly. Ask me how I know. LOL As long as you go out there, listen to your instructor and do not drive beyond your limits, you'll be just fine.

 

The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi impact test while M standard does not.
thanks dave

 

read the snell handbook.

to pass M and SA, they require the same multiple impact tests.

SA ADDS a roll cage impact test.

(does his s2000 have a roll cage? nope.)

to say M test is only SINGLE impact is FALSE.

k'thanks.

 

Wow, looks like lots of extra replies since I last looked. I did call my regional NASA office and they said that HPDE 1 will be fine with a stock S2000.

Now my second question is: If I bring a guest/passenger (my girlfriend), is there an "admission" fee for her if she doesn't drive? Looking at the schedule, there seems to be some classroom time. I assume she can't sit in since she didn't pay. Will it be quite boring for her?

Thanks!

 

It depends on the region and the track, but there is generally no fee for guests, and no one should care too much about her attending the classroom session.

Be aware that you probably wont be able to take her as a passenger on the track if you're in HPDE Group 1 or 2... unless you get special permission, the only people you can take in your car are instructors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now my second question is: If I bring a guest/passenger (my girlfriend), is there an "admission" fee for her if she doesn't drive? Looking at the schedule, there seems to be some classroom time. I assume she can't sit in since she didn't pay. Will it be quite boring for her?

Thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>There should be no admission fee for an HPDE. If it was a "hyper-fest" weekend or some other big event, then yes. Also, sometimes, it may be track dependent.
But if NASA wants more people to attend their events, then charging an admission fee should be the very last thing they should be doing.

As far as your girlfriend goes, whether or not it is boring is all dependent on her. I've seen some girls set in their tow vehicles with the AC on, reading all day. Others actually enjoy watching the events. Others can be trained to rotate your tires, bleed your brakes and check tire pressure while your in class. (Those are defiantly 'keepers').
As for the class room, it depends. If there is enough room, sure, let her see what it is your learning to do. Maybe she'll get hooked too and suddenly NASA has a new member. I doubt NASA officials would mind that. And especially in a green group class, I couldn't imagine a classroom instructor kicking someone out because they where interested in learning how to drive.

 

Thanks for the advice! I'm just worried that because I acutually paid the $250 or so for the day's event, having her just "tag along" in the classroom when she didn't pay may be offensive to the NASA officials. Essentially, she's getting a free lesson, right?

I don't expect her to be my passenger while on the track, although it may be interesting. My car doesn't have "oh ****" handles for her.

 

Bring her to the track. My suggestion is to make her day as enjoyable as possible while still ensuring that you have a blast as well. You can do a few simple things ahead of time like bringing a folding chair, drinks, snacks, tell her to bring some magazines, ect. The other thing that she might enjoy is going for a ride with one of the instructors. I'm not sure what NASA N.E.'s policy is, but often times when you're registering you can have her sign a waiver and she'd be allowed to ride along with an instructor for a session (no charge for doing this). When I brought my wife out for a session, I was surprised with how much she enjoyed it. Later in the year she even asked when my next event was because she wanted to go for another ride.

With the classroom sessions, usually there is ample room for others to participate. Talk with Joe when you register, tell him that your girlfriend is there and you're wonder if it would be o.k. to have her sit in the classroom with you. You may want to say that you'd like her to get an idea of what your new hobby is all about and share the experience.

I'm telling you, if you get her even remotely interested in this it'll pay big dividends for you later.

 

here in socal, you have to pay $10 for each person at NASA events to get in Willow Springs and Buttonwillow. EVEN IF YOURE A (PAYING) DRIVER. they say its the tracks rules, but when i was in norcal, SCCA never had an entry fee. california speedway doesnt ask for entry fee either.

btw, tell your gf to bring a book, just in case she gets bored.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">These are the differences:

Do be careful with the S2K. They handle awesome, but when pushed beyond its limit it does snap around pretty quickly. Ask me how I know. LOL As long as you go out there, listen to your instructor and do not drive beyond your limits, you'll be just fine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

S2K should be handled as a mid-engine car and not a FR car.

Nothing like spinning like a top going up hill.

 

Have fun at Pocono! we were just there last weekend for the SCCA Double National. Devils elbow is quite the turn

 

Dont bring a girl or quest to the track unless they have a job to perform. If you arent driving its boring as hell.

Your single focus that day should be on your driving...not entertaining a guest.

 

I disagree. Your single focus should be on having fun and if you can share that experience with your girlfriend, wife, and family, all the better. Think long term with this.

For example, a few of my friend's wives / girlfriends are not involved in the racing scene even the social aspect. They never attend events and just don't get the whole racing / HPDE scene. On the other hand, I have a few friends (including myself) who have worked to make the event enjoyable for our significant other. It's really not that difficult and doesn't have to consume much of your time at the event. Btw, while my friend's wife complained about him going to Mid OH (we're from CT) and Road Atlanta, my wife was excited about the trip. I went to both events; he stayed home. It sure also makes taking out the check book to attend easier if you're significant other has an appreciation for your hobby that they're a part of. Just my opinion of course.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It sure also makes taking out the check book to attend easier if you're significant other has an appreciation for your hobby that they're a part of. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure this is a good thing. If my wife makes it easier to get to the checkbook, I'm convinced this hobby would bankrupt us.

 

i suggest you take her the first time. then let her decide if she wants to come the next time. like i said, tell her to bring a book at least.