Here is some of my testing and data, that I figured I would share with the prelude community.

The following chart list the tire/wheel size, the final drive ratio use, the aprox tire tread depth, best lap times, and notes. The tire used for all laps were the toyo RA1 road race tires. These tires are shaved to 4/32’s for dry use and tend to get slightly faster the more they wear. The race track was beaverun, and it was sunny and dry each test day (temps=80’s). Everything on the car was the same between tests other than the FD and tire size. Ride height & alignment was adjusted for each set up. The 4.64 and 5.2 FD ware both MFactory units and I didn’t have any problems with either one. They stand up great to race abuse!! All other gears in the tranny are OEM stock.


size…………….FD…….tred…….best lap times…..notes:

225/45-15……..4.20…..4/32……1:09.50………crappy OEM gearing
225/45-15……..4.64…..1/32……1:08.15………good gearing
205/50-16.…….4.20……xxx…….OEM config. no data, I’m sure it would be 1:10+
245/45-16……..4.64…..4/32……1:09.00……....crappy gearing
245/45-16……..5.20…..3/32……1:07.80………good gearing
245/45-16……..5.20…..1/32……(should be faster 1:07.5ish, no data yet)

---------------Brake down of the 2 best wheel / FD combos-------------------------
225/45-15, with 4.64 FD.
--The good:
no fender rolling or bending needed.
Great gearing for road racing, top speeds of about 130mph. gearing = Great acceleration.
15x7 wheels are lighter than 16x7 (makes car faster).
You can use a lower ride height without bottoming out Vs a taller 16” tire (low CG=good).
cost less per tire
--The bad:
They tend to over heat when pushed hard for long races and slow down for the later laps.
They wear faster than the larger 16” tires.
narrower contact patch Vs the larger 16” tires.

245/45-16 with 5.2 FD
--the good
Great gearing for road racing, top speeds of about 130mph. Gearing = great acceleration.
Don’t over heat as easily as the smaller 15” tires = stay fast for long races.
Wear slower, and last longer than the 16” tires.
Wider contact patch = better cornering grip
--The bad
Can’t lower car as much on the taller 16” wheel (higher CG = bad)
Tires cost more
Tires/wheels weigh more, weight always = bad.
need to roll the fenders alot to fit this tire.


Conclusions:

The best wheel/tire FD combo for going fast in a straight line is the 4.64FD with 225/45-15 tire, on 15” wheels. The best overall combo for track use, were braking and cornering mean something, is a 5.2FD with 245/45-16 on 16” wheels, however it’s not THAT much faster than the 4.64FD & 225/45-15’s. If you are using any 16” or bigger wheel, then the 5.2FD will be the way to go for competition use for sure!!


Modified by 577HondaPrelude at 11:08 AM 8/16/2007

 

Were these tires mounted on 7" wide rims? When I saw David's 245/45/16s on 16x7s, the sidewalls were really pinched. That tire would do so much better on an 8" wide rim!

It's too bad we can't use Hoosier tires. The 225/45/15s and 225/50/15s I have mounted on 15x8 wheels are wider than the 245/45/16 Toyo RA1 on a 16x7 wheel!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do right now. I depends on whether or not I decide to stay in H2 this upcoming season. Decisions, decisions...

BTW, wouldn't average lap times be a better indicator?

Walter, for providing data! Do you have a data aq system to see if your straight line speed or speed through the turns was affected greatly by the tire size?

 

you dont think the 7" rim is too narrow for a 225?

i have been debating this for quite a while, if i should go 205 or 225 on my 7" rims, it seems like the 205 would be ideal size?

 

Most 225s (45s and 50s) will fit okay on a 7" wide rim. A 7.5 would be a better fit, and an 8" would be stretching it on some tire brands. It all depends on how wide the tire really is. A 225/45/15 Toyo appears to fit fine on a 7" wide rim, but a 225/45/15 Hoosier is slightly pinched on a 7" wide rim. A 225/45/15 Hoosier would probably fit best on an 8.5" wide rim, although they fit really well on my 15x8s. However, the 225/50/15 Hoosier R6 is very close to 10" (!!) wide (section width) on an 8" wide rim, so it's closer to a 245 than a 225.

 

yup, all tires were mounted on a 7" wheel. It fits, just not as good as it would on a 8" wheel. If I move the car to PT, or H1 I'm getting some 16x8 for sure! stupid 7" wide rule in H2 sucks.

sort of OT:
anyone know of a good light 16x8 5-lug wheel with 40mm to 50mm offset?

 

rota

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yup, all tires were mounted on a 7" wheel. It fits, just not as good as it would on a 8" wheel. If I move the car to PT, or H1 I'm getting some 16x8 for sure! stupid 7" wide rule in H2 sucks.

sort of OT:
anyone know of a good light 16x8 5-lug wheel with 40mm to 50mm offset?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rota. Contact me, and I'll see what I can do for you.

The 245/45/16s are 24.4" OD, right? I think they're basically the same size as the 235/40/17, but maybe a touch wider. Plus the additional side wall works better if/when you have an off.

I'd really be interested in seeing what the 245/45/16 looks like on a 16x8 wheel.

BTW, maybe we should submit a rule request for 8" wide wheels for H2? It seems reasonable to me.

I'm also thinking about H1 because I basically have an H1 engine ready to go, plus these 15x8s aren't legal in H2 anyway...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, maybe we should submit a rule request for 8" wide wheels for H2? It seems reasonable to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's been done, and turned down.

After I figure out what class I'm racing in next year I will let you know about the rota's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's been done, and turned down.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could run in PT if you wanted to....that way you could do whatever you wanted to your car.....mmmmmm....2400 lb prelude with driver with really, really wide wheels

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's been done, and turned down.

After I figure out what class I'm racing in next year I will let you know about the rota's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you thinking about leaving HC? Are you going to Nationals this year?

 

I will be H2 for NASA nationals this year. I'm still up in the air for next year. Could be H2, could be H1, or even PT. The nice thing about PT is if you use Hankook tires the prize $$ is real nice (much better than the toyo prize $$ in HC).

 

Good info, thanks for posting that up

 

For those that may be interested, we still have 3 x Used H22A 4.64 Final Drives on SALE!

All units are "as new", infact, the Pinions on them are Brand New, and the Ring Gears have only seen a few track miles and are in perfect condition.

Our retail on these is $549.95, but we are offering these "as new" units for only $439.95 inc shipping (20% discount)!

As mentioned, we only have 3 of these in stock, so if you are interested, please PM
577HondaPrelude asap

 

My wife is gonna kill me (yet again), but the 4.64's are too good a deal to pass up....now I just need to find a spare transmission...Say goodbye to the crappy 4.266 final drive

If anyone has a spare M2F4 or M2Y4 for sale, PM me!

 

I was looking into putting a 5.2 FD in a m2b4 transmission running 205 40 17 tires on a 17 x 7.5 wheel, will this be bad for 1/4 mile racing? Im a little confused.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is some of my testing and data, that I figured I would share with the prelude community.

The following chart list the tire/wheel size, the final drive ratio use, the aprox tire tread depth, best lap times, and notes. The tire used for all laps were the toyo RA1 road race tires. These tires are shaved to 4/32’s for dry use and tend to get slightly faster the more they wear. The race track was beaverun, and it was sunny and dry each test day (temps=80’s). Everything on the car was the same between tests other than the FD and tire size. Ride height & alignment was adjusted for each set up. The 4.64 and 5.2 FD ware both MFactory units and I didn’t have any problems with either one. They stand up great to race abuse!! All other gears in the tranny are OEM stock.


size…………….FD…….tred…….best lap times…..notes:

225/45-15……..4.20…..4/32……1:09.50………crappy OEM gearing
225/45-15……..4.64…..1/32……1:08.15………good gearing
205/50-16.…….4.20……xxx…….OEM config. no data, I’m sure it would be 1:10+
245/45-16……..4.64…..4/32……1:09.00……....crappy gearing
245/45-16……..5.20…..3/32……1:07.80………good gearing
245/45-16……..5.20…..1/32……(should be faster 1:07.5ish, no data yet)

---------------Brake down of the 2 best wheel / FD combos-------------------------
225/45-15, with 4.64 FD.
--The good:
no fender rolling or bending needed.
Great gearing for road racing, top speeds of about 130mph. gearing = Great acceleration.
15x7 wheels are lighter than 16x7 (makes car faster).
You can use a lower ride height without bottoming out Vs a taller 16” tire (low CG=good).
cost less per tire
--The bad:
They tend to over heat when pushed hard for long races and slow down for the later laps.
They wear faster than the larger 16” tires.
narrower contact patch Vs the larger 16” tires.

245/45-16 with 5.2 FD
--the good
Great gearing for road racing, top speeds of about 130mph. Gearing = great acceleration.
Don’t over heat as easily as the smaller 15” tires = stay fast for long races.
Wear slower, and last longer than the 16” tires.
Wider contact patch = better cornering grip
--The bad
Can’t lower car as much on the taller 16” wheel (higher CG = bad)
Tires cost more
Tires/wheels weigh more, weight always = bad.
need to roll the fenders alot to fit this tire.


Conclusions:

The best wheel/tire FD combo for going fast in a straight line is the 4.64FD with 225/45-15 tire, on 15” wheels. The best overall combo for track use, were braking and cornering mean something, is a 5.2FD with 245/45-16 on 16” wheels, however it’s not THAT much faster than the 4.64FD & 225/45-15’s. If you are using any 16” or bigger wheel, then the 5.2FD will be the way to go for competition use for sure!!


Modified by 577HondaPrelude at 11:08 AM 8/16/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand that the 15 inchers tend to heat up and wear quicker than the "16, but wouldnt the quickest set up be the "15 wheels with the 5.2 FD???I dont see any info on that set up...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was looking into putting a 5.2 FD in a m2b4 transmission running 205 40 17 tires on a 17 x 7.5 wheel, will this be bad for 1/4 mile racing? Im a little confused. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the 5.2 will be way better than the oem 4.2 with your 17" tires (for road racing, and drag racing). However, 17" wheels are going to slow any prelude down VS a smaller wheel (17" are just too big and heavy). What you really want is 15", or 16" wheels (7" or 8" wide).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">15 wheels with the 5.2 FD???I dont see any info on that set up... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't use that setup because my top speed would be too low and I would run out of gear on the straights and be riding the rev limiter. I need a top speed of about 125 to 130 MPH. The 5.2FD with 245/45/15's will have a top speed lower than 125. However, if I ran any tight tracks with a top speed of 110 or so, that set up would be fun to try!

 

Just set the fuel cut to 9500 RPMs, and you're set!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't use that setup because my top speed would be too low and I would run out of gear on the straights and be riding the rev limiter. I need a top speed of about 125 to 130 MPH. The 5.2FD with 245/45/15's will have a top speed lower than 125. However, if I ran any tight tracks with a top speed of 110 or so, that set up would be fun to try!</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I can't use that setup because my top speed would be too low and I would run out of gear on the straights and be riding the rev limiter. I need a top speed of about 125 to 130 MPH. The 5.2FD with 245/45/15's will have a top speed lower than 125. However, if I ran any tight tracks with a top speed of 110 or so, that set up would be fun to try!</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could always try to use 225-50-15 with the 5.2 FD. It would give you a couple more mph

 

Thank you for answering my question.

So, say I keep my 205/40/17" x 7.5" wheels, got a m2b4, and swapped in the 5.2 FD, what would my top speed be?

And how many RPM do you estimate at 70mph?

 

out of curiosity, waht was ur top speed with the 4.64 and 225/45R15s?

 

Based on 8000rpm & 205/40/17, the 5.2 will give approx. 123mph top speed. You would be doing around 4500rpm @ 70mph

Based on 8000rpm & 225/45/15, the 4.64 will give approx. 135mph top speed.

 

Im building a all motor H22 drag car and have been debating to get the 4.64 or the 5.2 final all day.

I ran the gear calculators a few times and came up with this

H23 1-3rd H22 4-5

that way i can still hit 130 if i need too heres the outcome:

31, 54, 77, 102, 130


with just the h22 gears it would be

31, 54, 77, 98, 121


This is using 205/50/15 inch tires

anybody have any input as far as what they think would be good?

RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 2 3 5 6 8
600 2 4 6 8 10
700 3 5 7 9 11
800 3 5 8 10 13
900 4 6 9 11 15
1000 4 7 10 13 16
1100 4 7 11 14 18
1200 5 8 12 15 20
1300 5 9 13 17 21
1400 6 9 14 18 23
1500 6 10 15 19 24
1600 6 11 16 20 26
1700 7 12 16 22 28
1800 7 12 17 23 29
1900 8 13 18 24 31
2000 8 14 19 26 33
2100 8 14 20 27 34
2200 9 15 21 28 36
2300 9 16 22 29 37
2400 10 16 23 31 39
2500 10 17 24 32 41
2600 10 18 25 33 42
2700 11 18 26 34 44
2800 11 19 27 36 46
2900 12 20 28 37 47
3000 12 20 29 38 49
3100 12 21 30 40 50
3200 13 22 31 41 52
3300 13 22 32 42 54
3400 14 23 33 43 55
3500 14 24 34 45 57
3600 14 24 35 46 59
3700 15 25 36 47 60
3800 15 26 37 49 62
3900 16 26 38 50 63
4000 16 27 39 51 65
4100 16 28 40 52 67
4200 17 28 41 54 68
4300 17 29 42 55 70
4400 18 30 43 56 72
4500 18 30 44 57 73
4600 18 31 45 59 75
4700 19 32 46 60 76
4800 19 32 47 61 78
4900 20 33 48 63 80
5000 20 34 49 64 81
5100 20 35 49 65 83
5200 21 35 50 66 85
5300 21 36 51 68 86
5400 22 37 52 69 88
5500 22 37 53 70 89
5600 22 38 54 71 91
5700 23 39 55 73 93
5800 23 39 56 74 94
5900 24 40 57 75 96
6000 24 41 58 77 98
6100 24 41 59 78 99
6200 25 42 60 79 101
6300 25 43 61 80 102
6400 26 43 62 82 104
6500 26 44 63 83 106
6600 26 45 64 84 107
6700 27 45 65 86 109
6800 27 46 66 87 111
6900 28 47 67 88 112
7000 28 47 68 89 114
7100 28 48 69 91 115
7200 29 49 70 92 117
7300 29 49 71 93 119
7400 30 50 72 94 120
7500 30 51 73 96 122
7600 30 51 74 97 124
7700 31 52 75 98 125
7800 31 53 76 100 127
7900 32 53 77 101 128
8000 32 54 78 102 130