im debating building up a deries motor with a built head and bottom end or a b16a swap. I have a rolling chassis with a cage in it and i plan on autocrossing with it. I was wondering if anyone else had one and what your thoughts were and what kind of numbers i should expect.

 

Better read the rules on what you can do with a motor, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING

THen look and see what you competion will be if you were to run in a class that let you run with a "Built head and Bottom end" or B16A swap.

 

agreed review the rules, but i belive for the honda challenge a d series allows for the least weight in a vehicle, unlimted head prep, and any oem bottom parts

 

both together basically answers ur ?. it depends on the sanctioning body and the series ull be in. good luck.

 

what year car?
if it's a 92 up civic, you can swap in a D series vtec engine, and be legal for Street Prepared based on update/backdate rules. however you can't touch the engine internals except for an overbore. you'll be alot more competivie in DSP, as opposed to swaping a B16 and being in SM (street Modified).
#1 a B swap weighs more then a D
#2 the B16 is pretty torqueless and the powerband is pretty lame for autox. after driving my friends lighter civic with B16a, i much prefer my B20, and typically am faster then him on street tires (he runs R comps)

if you want to build up an engine, and run in SM, i'd say either build a B20/vtec, or a turbo'ed D. and if you got the bucks k20.
don't go crazy on the turbo size though. something like a Greddy 14b, or Garrett GT25r. turbo D all together could give you a nice responsive powerband without having to spend $1000's on valvetrain,headers, etc
you want a nice FAT powerband. 3000-7000 rpm .
peak numbers don't really mean much in autox if you only have a 1000 rpm powerband. at least on a FWD.

 

^ alot of good points there. Ive been autox'n for about 3 years with a stock b16 and now a mildly built b16 and it sucks for tight courses. Im rarely ever in my power band, allthough an FD would really help this. A turboed d could be built so cheap and would be really fun on the street and could work well in autox. Street Mod has a lot of tough competition.

 

yeah. B16. it's not SLOW, but i don't think it's ideal for really tight courses.
you are doing enough in autox, definitely don't want to be shifting a dozen times on a course.
i think idealy you want a setup where you can stay in second gear 90% of the time, and only have to shift to 3rd for high speed sections (60-80mph)

just 2 weeks ago i was laughing at a BMW event, when a B16 CRX was doing an entire course in 1st gear.
it was definitely a tight course, but you could definitely see he was loosing speed in some areas by not shifting to 2nd gear.

 

i think the chassis is 91 crx si with 92-95 front suspension and the car has no wiring in it. I was thinking about putting the b16a in that and my current daily driver is a 90 crx si with a d16a6 which im currently auto crossing with and i like it but i want to raise the redline a bit and have it make power to redline and not have to worry about blowing it up. Im hearing a lot of people telling me to turbo. im being slowly convinced to just build it for boost.

 

I love kids with CRX "SIR's" that dont shift. Its even better when i point and laugh then they see that i have one with a d series and my times are faster.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by perosis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I love kids with CRX "SIR's" that dont shift. Its even better when i point and laugh then they see that i have one with a d series and my times are faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's only because you're picking on kids - and we all know that beating them isn't very rewarding anyways. It'll take a hell of a lot more to beat the true professionals or even just good amateurs. BTW, see the August issue of "Honda Tuning" magazine for a story on a 170 dynapack hp road race D16/D17 "inbred motor swap" that I was lucky enough to be allowed to write. This motor won an H1 race in West Coast Honda Challenge and is now owned by the 2006 HC H4 National Champion.

 

you are correct that i was picking on kids and yes i do talk ****. i got picked on too and actually enjoyed it, learn more that way. thanks for the information on HT.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by perosis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im debating building up a deries motor with a built head and bottom end or a b16a swap. I have a rolling chassis with a cage in it and i plan on autocrossing with it. I was wondering if anyone else had one and what your thoughts were and what kind of numbers i should expect.</TD></TR></TABLE>

start auto xing with the non built d series. you will be thankfull later.
when you cant go anyfaster tehn build your d series.

if anything, auto xing us usuallyl &lt;80 mph so you dont need a ton of power. just get a real low (4.9) FD gear and a LSD and some good tires and you will have a great auto x car with a very reliable d series motor

and everyone will wonder how the heck that sohc is going so fast

and you wont have touched the engine


lsd~1000$
4.9~500$
d series tranny 50-150$

i used a gear speed calc and it told me that a dx tranny with a 4.9 would have slightly better gearing than a stock ITR tranny. i donno how correct it was though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's only because you're picking on kids - and we all know that beating them isn't very rewarding anyways. It'll take a hell of a lot more to beat the true professionals or even just good amateurs. BTW, see the August issue of "Honda Tuning" magazine for a story on a 170 dynapack hp road race D16/D17 "inbred motor swap" that I was lucky enough to be allowed to write. This motor won an H1 race in West Coast Honda Challenge and is now owned by the 2006 HC H4 National Champion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

or when the car is a 4wd scooby or evo with 300 hp and you're faster than them with a civic in the rain

 

i've learned it's definitely nothing to do with the car. it's all about the driver. 2 months ago a Viper on 315mm race tires was only .1 seconds faster then my car on azenis. it's all about the driver.

my new car is getting 96-up HX tranny. (diff bearings same size as EX's) the 92-95 DX trannys have smaller diff bearing size (inner and outer) then the 92-95 EX trannies, and they wouldn't work with the OBX Lsd.
but with 4.9 final drive the gear ratios are pretty good, better then a stock EX for sure. however 1st gear is VERY useless

 

I built a D. what is it you need to know?

with a stock head (just cam and valvetrain) and some other work, its sitting at 144whp 122 wtq

 

im just looking for some extra power and safety while running for a while near redline.

 

I'd replicate Eyal's build. H2 legal if you decide to move to roadracing (though I don't think you'll be doing that), and sounds like a hugely fun motor, with the super awesome bonus of being pretty darn cheap.

 

i think my buddy is going to build that stroker d16/d17 im gonna see how he likes that and go from there. right now im thinking built non-vtec b18 gsr

 

the one that blew up at it's first track event?

D17 crank and a shaved D15 crank pulley, hello bad vibes!

Colin should have it ready for NASA Nats in 3 weeks?

 

D can hang with B. it depends on a lot of things, including skilllz. remix was at the time, 145 whp 2150 w/driver. it beat 2-3 other B18C powered EG's...



took 4th place overall (beat lot of faster class cars too) and 1st in class.

see the in car vid:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bpi7Q1hI-Wg

also z6/y8 with i/h/e, AKMEE kit beats a B16A with h/e easily.

 

for ppl on budget just get the OBX LSD. it works great (Quaife knock off). 4.7 or 4.9 is a must too. i recommend Gear-X from Special Projects! German made qualify!