i hit the brakes smoothly and they went all the way to the floor kinda easy, i was gonna stop at a yellow rather than risk goin thru the intersection

kinda scared me

what should i check first

the front pads are OK, rears are thinnin, i have ABS and 4wheel disk

 

When you hit the brake did the pedal just go to the floor or did it hesitate first like it was going to apply the brakes and slow the car down but instead slowly crept to the floor as you continued to apply pressure?

If you pump the brakes can you get it to hold pressure? For example, when you go to stop, you push the brakes and it starts to sink to the floor so you pump it once and now it holds pressure better but then still sinks to the floor?

When not moving, apply the brakes. Does it hold pressure or does it sink to the floor?

Try just moving slowly and apply the brakes, does the pedal sink to the floor?

If you answered yes to the above, sounds like you could have a bad brake master cylinder. Mine went out on my Civic last month.

If it does turn out to be the master cylinder, here is how I replaced mine with minimal mess from the brake fluid.

1. place some rags/towels (I use the blue paper towel from AutoZone ) under the brake MC in the car
2. take an old turkey baster and remove as much of the fluid from the old MC as you can
3. loosen, but don't remove, the lines on the MC
4. clamp your new MC into a vice
5. my new MC (ordered from Honda) came with plastic/rubber plugs in the ports for the brake lines. So I cut the end off to make it open, then took a piece of 1/4" OD hose and wrapped some thread tape around the end and stuffed it into the plug in the MC
6. zip tie the hoses the the MC to make them stay inside the reservoir
7. place some more rags/towels under the new MC on the vice (some fluid will drip out of the holes but nothing major, the plugs and hoses sealed it pretty good)
8. fill the reservoir with new brake fluid
9. pump the push rod until you have no more air bubbles in the hoses (make sure to keep the hoses in the fluid, otherwise you'll continue to suck in air)
10. go remove the old MC from the car and place it into something to contain the remaining brake fluid (I used a drip pan for oil changes that I later just wiped clean)
11. place the new MC in place and bolt it onto the brake booster
12. remove the hoses/plugs one by one and put the brake lines into the holes (do this quick enough and you shouldn't spill to much fluid, though be prepared for the 1/4" hoses to release a bunch of fluid when removed from the MC)
13. Once everything is in place and torqued down, remove the dirty rags and wiper anything clean that may have gotten brake fluid on it (remember brake fluid is bad for your paint)
14. fill the reservoir up and begin to bleed the brakes. Look at your manual for the proper sequence as I don't recall what it is off the top of my head.
15. check for any leaks in the brake lines and then you're all set

 

Good stuff.

That may be one the problems with my car, my brakes work, I just have to push them down far. My rotors feel smooth but a new set of pads probably wouldn't hurt

 

if your brakes work fine but they just go down a bit far then it probably isn't the MC thats the problem.

When my MC went it went in about 5 miles if that. It went quick and I had to use my ebrake and down shifting to get home cause the brakes were doing anything other than lighting up the taillights to tell people I'm slowing down.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> it hesitate first like it was going to apply the brakes and slow the car down but instead slowly crept to the floor as you continued to apply pressure?

yeah that one it was a fast stop so i used more pressure, i mean i used as much pressure as seemed sane to use and it went to the floor, the brakes work, but this is the only car ive driven besides a ranger so im not sure about the brakes

If you pump the brakes can you get it to hold pressure? For example, when you go to stop, you push the brakes and it starts to sink to the floor so you pump it once and now it holds pressure better but then still sinks to the floor?

well, you mean with the car on or off, it hold pressure with the car off

When not moving, apply the brakes. Does it hold pressure or does it sink to the floor?

it doesnt just go to the floor i guess, but i can put it there if i try
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

so is it just steady as it goes down to the floor? Or can you feel it get loose and sink after a certain point?

On mine when it went I could feel it grab real fast and then you could just feel the pedal get loose and sink to the floor and I believe I could hear what seemed like fluid bypassing the seals. My brakes wouldn't work though, I would have to pump the brakes constantly while moving to get them to grab and slow the car down, thats why I used the ebrake and downshifting instead cause it was more reliable to me.

Did it just start doing this or is it something it's done in the past?

 

yeah man it just goes down steady

lol ur brake pedal had VTAK, after a certian poitn it just takes off

i may just be being paranoid and the brakes are fine, but i though it was supposed to take a lot of pressure to floor ythe brake, mayhbe i dont know my own strength/how much is "a lot"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 361 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol ur brake pedal had VTAK, after a certian poitn it just takes off </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha, lol. If I put quotes in my sig this would probably be it

every car is different but no, I don't think it should go that far.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

haha, lol. If I put quotes in my sig this would probably be it

every car is different but no, I don't think it should go that far.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol thanks

so you're saying, it should not be possible to put the pedal to the floor even if i tried?

maybe its my brake hoses are squishy???
there was a thread about SS hoses but i cant remember the verdict on that
about them rusting or cutting up the hose?

 

yes, when this happens it's called brake Vtakkkkkk!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't think it's squishy brakes from the rubber brake lines.

I believe the outcome of that was dirt and that gets inbetween the SS braiding and the rubber hose which over time causes chafing and then leaking. I don't know how true all that is because I've never installed or had SS braided lines.

Did it just start doing this?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think it's squishy brakes from the rubber brake lines.

I believe the outcome of that was dirt and that gets inbetween the SS braiding and the rubber hose which over time causes chafing and then leaking. I don't know how true all that is because I've never installed or had SS braided lines.

Did it just start doing this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

umm well its been "soft" for a while, this just the first time i needed the brakes

i was considering SS lines so i can have stiffer brakes, ive got a powerwasher i can use to get the grime out lol

 

have you tried bleeding the brakes?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you tried bleeding the brakes?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, dont know how, and what are the symptoms of needing a bleeding?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 361 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no, dont know how, and what are the symptoms of needing a bleeding?</TD></TR></TABLE>
What you are experienceing now are the symptoms.

 

do you have a manual?

I want to say the sequence is right rear &gt; left front &gt; left rear &gt; right front
but double check that in the manual.

-have someone pump the brakes three times and hold on the third.
-attach a hose to the bleed screw to collect the fluid.
-loosen the bleed screw, be careful you don't want to break it.
-as you loose the bleed screw you'll see fluid come out. watch for bubbles.
-when no bubble come out move to the next wheel.
-make sure the MC reservoir doesn't run empty or else you'll have to bleed the system again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you have a manual?

I want to say the sequence is right rear &gt; left front &gt; left rear &gt; right front
but double check that in the manual.

-have someone pump the brakes three times and hold on the third.
-attach a hose to the bleed screw to collect the fluid.
-loosen the bleed screw, be careful you don't want to break it.
-as you loose the bleed screw you'll see fluid come out. watch for bubbles.
-when no bubble come out move to the next wheel.
-make sure the MC reservoir doesn't run empty or else you'll have to bleed the system again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok ill need someone to help me out then or tell my folk if they dont want tlet me do it, then they can pay to get it done

but its not really that hard, right, average prices of brake bleeding service?

 

it's not hard to do yourself, no. But I don't know how much to have a shop to it.

keep in mind if you snap a bleed screw though you'll have to replace the caliper.

When I installed me new MC last week or whatever I just had my girl pump the brakes, she switch feet a couple times but no complaints from her I just kept bleeding the brakes until the fluid started coming out cleaner from the new fluid in the reservoir, got rid of most of the old fluid.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's not hard to do yourself, no. But I don't know how much to have a shop to it.

keep in mind if you snap a bleed screw though you'll have to replace the caliper.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

what are they east to break or something?

also is there recomendations for brake fluid, an upgrade from the other or something

 

they can get very rusted in there.

the fronts on my Civic were easy to loosen but the rears were hard. I sprayed them and used a wire brush on them to help clean the rust away before loosening the bleeder. Also, use a flare nut wrench if you have it, otherwise break it free with a deep socket (when you do this, have someone keep pressure on the brake pedal, some fluid will come out but this way no air goes into the system) but then use a wrench for the bleeding process, ten torwue it back down at 14ft-lbs I think.

I've used Valvoline brake fluid in both my Civic and my Accord, no complaints here. I think I bought a big bottle at AutoZone for like $6 I think.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you have a manual?

I want to say the sequence is right rear &gt; left front &gt; left rear &gt; right front
but double check that in the manual.

-have someone pump the brakes three times and hold on the third.
-attach a hose to the bleed screw to collect the fluid.
-loosen the bleed screw, be careful you don't want to break it.
-as you loose the bleed screw you'll see fluid come out. watch for bubbles.
-when no bubble come out move to the next wheel.
-make sure the MC reservoir doesn't run empty or else you'll have to bleed the system again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think there has to be any particular order. I read like 3907480375834 threads in the ITR forum about it, and read that people just did them randomly and blah blah blah all was fine. It's pretty funny when you go in there and watch them argue over stuff

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TouringAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want to say the sequence is right rear &gt; left front &gt; left rear &gt; right front
but double check that in the manual...</TD></TR></TABLE>
My Helm book ('98+) says LF - RF - RR - LR.

That's for 4-cyl 6th-gen cars. The V-6 has the ABS modulator in the opposite corner of the engine compartment, so it might be different. Of course beginning in '03 (7th-gen) it might be different too.

 

yeah mines a F23A1

i got a headscratcher here, arent there some "easy bleeders" that you can BUY, or is that only on domestics, any ideas?

 

I use a Mighty-vac vacuum pump to suck the brake fluid out. That way I can do it by myself, and don't have to push the brake pedal all the way to the floor, forcing the master-cylinder shaft where it's never been before.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 361 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... arent there some "easy bleeders" that you can BUY, or is that only on domestics, any ideas?</TD></TR></TABLE>I got some (for '89 Saab) from Summit Racing. "Speed Bleeders" substitute for the bleed valve in each brake caliper, and there's a little check-valve inside. You put a hose & bottle just like normal bleeding, but you don't have to be down there opening & closing the bleeder while someone pumps the pedal.

They worked pretty good. Then 2 years later when I went to flush brake fluid again, there was enough corrosion that they didn't work... So I guess it depends where you live - they use plenty of road salt around here.