Next week I'll have my 93 Civic ESi with D16Z6 \o/ If any of my questions are findable through the search engine, please forgive me cause I really tried.

One of the reasons I chose Honda is the tuneability of the engines and the low prices of after market parts. My target is to get a fast Civic without too much costs. If the costs would be 2000 I could just as well buy a turbo kit.

Now, I want to tune my Civic and get it close to 7 seconds for 0-60mph. A guy that tunes ECU's told me that he tuned a Civic with 4-2-1 header, cat replacer, stainless steel exhaust, other intake manifold and bigger throttle body to be faster than a Civic VTI (B16a2) after the ECU was tuned.

I have done quite some research on my own. To avoid problems with the police I'm probably going to take off the Megan Racing catback (unless I find a reasonably priced way of taking away almost all extra noise with a switch in the car) and replace it for Tanabe as those exhaust don't produce more than 93db at any given rpm. Taking away the cat will produce some more noise but I want to install an exhaust control valve so I can almost totally close my exhaust when the police starts to annoy me so they can't even measure 1db too much (in this sucky country you're only allowed to produce 2db more than standard, which is 89 or 90db for my ESi i believe). Also, my ECU will be programmed with "launch control", no more than 3500rpm when standing still. Not only for the use of it but also to prevent the police from making a correct measurement. I will also buy a 4-2-1 header, a cheap one.

Next is the intake manifold and bigger TB. I'm not sure what to buy. Maybe I haven't used the search option the right way (believe me, I tried) but I can't find anything about Blox and OBX on a D16xx. I did find a thread in which someone installed a Blox IM on a B18 engine (GSR). He dyno'ed it and the result was that he gained 12 peak horsepower but the low and mid end torque was severely "damaged". I wouldn't mind if a better IM would cost me a little low end torque but it shouldn't be very much (I can't PM the person who dyno'ed it, b19coupe so I have to wait for a dyno roll out). I'm wondering, would the result be the same on a D16Z6? If yes, what would be a better option? If no, what kind of result should I expect?

Next is the throttle body. To get more air into a better IM requires a bigger opening Is it possible to mount a B16 TB on an aftermarket D16 manifold (couldnt find it with the search)? What would be other good alternatives besides new after market throttle bodies costing $200 or more?

I believe I also read something about getting a higher compression ratio with A D16Y8 gasket on a D16Z6. But the problem is that I can't find it anymore...And I have some other questions about D16Y8 parts.

I live in the Netherlands. For as far as I know, D16Y8's have never been sold here. Would it be worth it to search and pay for a D16Y8 head or intake manifold? What kind of performance gain could I expect? I read that the Y8 maifold sucks because of the curves in the IM. Cause it would be a shame to spend 400-500 euro's on a head that gives me 2hp extra.

Other things about compression ratio. Here in the Netherlands standard fuel is octane 95. What C/R can I run at maximum on the safe side? And what kind of C/R will P29 pistons give me (as I've read on this forum, those pistons raise my C/R right?)?

And if you have any more tips to easily and (relatively) cheaply tune my Civic, please let me know! (got a CAI allready). I'm also considering a different cam, but not sure wether I will buy one.


Modified by Dutch_Mofo at 12:47 PM 7/11/2007

 

It's really good to see people who don't just start threads that say " SUp honda-tech, how do I make my SOHC VTECH make madddd power?"

It looks like you've been doing some research and using the search function. Definite from me. There is a website with some nice articles on N/A tuning, flow velocity, intake/exhaust manifold design, etc, but it's down right now, I'll see if i can get you the correct links by tomorrow or so.

Making good N/A power out of a D is an uphill battle. It is definitely not impossible, but without a big budget, you might hit the limits a lot sooner than you hope.

 

your answers lie here:

http://www.d-series.org

however, I wouldn't recommend spending much money on your d16z6. You'll just end up unhappy in the long run, expecially if you're trying to be faster than b-series motors....

 

@gibsanez: looking forward to those links

@gibsanez & meallout

Well, it's not that I want to be faster than a b-series specifically. I just want to be faster. And I heard from that guy that it's doable with full stainless exhaust, better IM en bigger TB and ECU tuning.

Besides, the thing is, I calculated what I would spend on Tanabe exhaust, header, IM, TB, P29's, Crowers stage 2 or 3 cam, valve springs and cam gear and I'd be done for under 1500 euro's. A B16 swap here would cost about 2500 euro's, boosting everything would also cost me 2500 euro's and any bigger/stronger engine, well, you can guess.

Based on what that guy that tunes ECU's told me about being faster than a B16, I was expecting something like 160hp and more torque than a B series engine, but what would you think? What would you recommend to tune and what not?

 

I feel that 160hp and more tq than a B16 is pretty unrealistic considering your budget.

I checked the site again, and it's still down. Hopefully tommorow

 

Hehe. But the B16 only has 12nm more, I mean it shouldn't be THAT hard to gain 14 or 15nm right? I'll try to find that dynosheet from that Civic that was fasther than a B16 and upload it.

 

The heads flow differently, the bore/stroke is different, the dual cam vtec vs single cam is definitely worth considering, there are a lot of engine characteristics that make comparing D and B engines hard to do fairly.

The fact is you will max out what is possible with a stock bore/stroke D before you will a B series. Plus, without having a big budget, it's even bigger of a hurtle. Sure, you could make your D16 work just as good or better than a stock B16, but the B's have a higher platform to start with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gibsanez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The heads flow differently, the bore/stroke is different, the dual cam vtec vs single cam is definitely worth considering, there are a lot of engine characteristics that make comparing D and B engines hard to do fairly.

The fact is you will max out what is possible with a stock bore/stroke D before you will a B series. Plus, without having a big budget, it's even bigger of a hurtle. Sure, you could make your D16 work just as good or better than a stock B16, but the B's have a higher platform to start with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea but he is talking about a b16a2, not a 1.8L.

 

A little kick. I promised a dynoplot, here it is:



As you can see, between 3400 en 6500rpm it's got more than 160nm/118lb.ft torque and even at the redline it's got 140nm/103lb.ft torque. 147hp@6400rpm.

For as far as I know this is at the crank. His mods:

Megan Racing camgear
H23 TB
OEM IM polished and ported
K&N replacement filter
Megan Racing 4-2-1, heatwrapped
cat replacer 2.25 inch
catback (2.25 inch) with custom IMCO muffler
Crome tuned

Having seen this, is it still so strange to believe I might be able to be as fast as A B16a2?

 

you have a larger pic of that plot?

 

No I don't sorry. You can't read the numbers?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dutch_Mofo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No I don't sorry. You can't read the numbers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i can read the numbers, i was just wanting to see the graph

 

ok, well I didnt' want to get into it, I don't post much here, but my engine mods are as follows:

d16z6
custom 3" intake arm to stock box w/ K&N filter
velocity stack under stock air box
b18b TB portmatched to stock manifold
stg 1 cam
edelbrock header (best bang for the buck, WAY better than cheapo ebays)
2.25" exhaust to STOCK muffler

I've raced a 99 si and beat him by a half car, and an ls/vtec DA and hung with him door to door through 4th (his vtec malfunctions in fourth)

So I've done it, btu I was lucky, I had almost all the parts just laying around, and didnt' pay list price on anything but my header (worth it). I just wouldn't suggest it to someone, as they're goign to be let down when they get their doors blown off by a stock GSR, you know?

Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY proud of my na D series, and I rep it everywhere I go, but I always tell people its not worth it, because well....I don't think it is