I am slowly ordering and sourcing the parts for my non-vtec build. I have done a search and researched the LS and B20 non-vtec builds out there. My question is, is the extra displacement worth it? I can basically get a B20 for around $400usd. Since I am buying pistons anyways the only increase in cost will be the block. Is the extra hp and tq be worth the $400? Please give some constructive opinions.

1.8L vs 2.0L with the same parts an mods, what would be the difference in power?

 

getting the most displacement would help you greatly as youre deciding to throw out the vtec powerband out the window...my .02cents

 

the difference in power will mostly be in the low to midrange end, you didnt give a whole lot of specs as to what your building but IMHO if you have hefty cams the added displacement will help in low RPM operation were non vtec cams dont exactly shine.

if its worth it to you is up to you to decide, youll always make more power with more displacement but id say there wont be a huge peak number gain, maybe 5hp.... mostly due to the cam/head design of the non vtec engines limiting top end performance. however FWIW i swapped out my b18b for a b20

if you were to use a vtec head and large cams i would say the gain would be pretty linear throughout the powerband.

 

if ur gonna go non vtec LS is able to rev higher than the b20. i had a b20b in my DA with crower stage 2 cams. wwiith reprogrammed ecu. it was able to redline to 8k but i only took it to 7500. i had the cams in my LS before i had it in the b20 and i gotta admit the power felt a lot better with the b20.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur gonna go non vtec LS is able to rev higher than the b20. </TD></TR></TABLE>

how is that true? please explain

 

how is what true

 

the smaller the displacement of an engine, the faster and higher it can rev. there is less weight to move so less friction. you ever notice big V-8's redline at like 5-6k. were these 4-bangers can rev to 7-8k.

 

if your stock motor is getting tired why not replace it with a 2.0L block. In such a light chasis with the right build it will make more than sufficient street power. 7K is the most you should ever need.

I had a b20z with hytech header cat co cat and custom straight pipe with magnaflow muffler and turn down tip. on the intake side I had AEM CAI, skunk2 im with hondata IM gasket, 62mm ported TB and the coolant lines removed, with a regular tuneup new plugs wires and the dizzy advanced on 91 shell tuned with hondata it made over 200 hp and with a decent suspension and azenis tire it would walk away from every car that I ever met in so cal.

Alot of people quote power and revs B.S true usuable everyday power puts most of those people to shame. I'd give b16 and b18 swappers a ride and as the ash tray would litterally launch into the back seat they'd understand this concept.

If you happen to find one I highly recommend an LSD equipped b16 gearbox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mxbassrocker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the smaller the displacement of an engine, the faster and higher it can rev. there is less weight to move so less friction. you ever notice big V-8's redline at like 5-6k. were these 4-bangers can rev to 7-8k.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your wrong.

V8's that can only REV to 5-6k has nothing to do with the displacement. This has to do with the design of the pushrod engine. Overhad cam V8's like the ones used by BMW's , Mercedes, etc etc use an overhead cam design that allows the engine to breath more air in and out therefore allowing the engine to rev up to 8k and more RPM.

 

you should go with a 2.2L SOHC non-vtec!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how is what true</TD></TR></TABLE>

how an ls can rev higher than a b20 when their bottom ends are practically identical except for pistons

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mxbassrocker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the smaller the displacement of an engine, the faster and higher it can rev. there is less weight to move so less friction. you ever notice big V-8's redline at like 5-6k. were these 4-bangers can rev to 7-8k.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so explain how the v8's in nascar are pushing 9k rpm's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS is able to rev higher than the b20. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mxbassrocker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the smaller the displacement of an engine, the faster and higher it can rev. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Lots of very informed opinions here
To the OP: get as much displacement as you can afford.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how is what true</TD></TR></TABLE>

what you stated, you mudflap...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur gonna go non vtec LS is able to rev higher than the b20.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

u cant rev high with a light truck motor

 

Why not?

Did your ASE smog book tell you that?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur gonna go non vtec LS is able to rev higher than the b20. i had a b20b in my DA with crower stage 2 cams. wwiith reprogrammed ecu. it was able to redline to 8k but i only took it to 7500. i had the cams in my LS before i had it in the b20 and i gotta admit the power felt a lot better with the b20. </TD></TR></TABLE>

definitely not, I think the reason why ur thinking that is because b20 have thinner sleeves and they crack easily on high rpms I think thats right someone help with this

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMLS4dr200whp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">definitely not, I think the reason why ur thinking that is because b20 have thinner sleeves and they crack easily on high rpms I think thats right someone help with this </TD></TR></TABLE>

When sleeves crack it is mainly due to detonation.

 

OMG its attack of the noobs, this thread was dead let it be.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u cant rev high with a light truck motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melsun_ap1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur gonna go non vtec LS is able to rev higher than the b20. i had a b20b in my DA with crower stage 2 cams. wwiith reprogrammed ecu. it was able to redline to 8k but i only took it to 7500. i had the cams in my LS before i had it in the b20 and i gotta admit the power felt a lot better with the b20. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

The b20 will rev great. The largest issue as I see it with the stock b20 is the rod/rod bolt combo. The are not strong enough for higher rpm duty. Build your bottom end with some nice light (and strong) rods and pistons, and you will be fine. It is true the b20 sleeves are thinner then the b18 ls sleeves, but they are still plenty strong for a well built, higher rpm, n/a combo.

 

damn this is getting out of hand. i hope some noob doesnt actually believe this stuff. v8's cant rev cause pushrods suck,the valvetrain sucks,the bottom end isnt balanced for ****{thats for the old v8's the other guy was insinuating}. all honda blocks are balanced pretty damn good from the factory,and they all use overhead cams{no pushrods},so that has nothing to do with honda's. if the ls is in good shape i say stick with it as u can make that run good with the right setup,but if it needs replaced then go ahead and get the b20 for the same price just get the arp rod bolts,the extra displacement is always a good thing. check out vivid 02's setup if u dont think they can rev,his is stock crank,rods,and cast pistons

 

There are only 3 people in here anyone should be listening to:
b19coupe
Combustion Contraption
JCushing

These guys have actual experience with motor building and non-VTEC wizardry. Almost everyone else is spouting off some pretty damn ridiculous nonsense.

To actually address the OP's question, I noticed a difference going from a B18 to a B20, keeping everything else (cams, header, etc.) exactly the same. With ARP rodbolts, I rev mine to 7500 regularly and haven't had any problems yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are only 3 people in here anyone should be listening to:
b19coupe
Combustion Contraption
JCushing

These guys have actual experience with motor building and non-VTEC wizardry. Almost everyone else is spouting off some pretty damn ridiculous nonsense.

To actually address the OP's question, I noticed a difference going from a B18 to a B20, keeping everything else (cams, header, etc.) exactly the same. With ARP rodbolts, I rev mine to 7500 regularly and haven't had any problems yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont tell me im spouting off nonsense. i have a ls in my car now with itr pistons and arp rod bolts and rev it to 7000 all the time. thats why why i said what i said cause the b20 and the ls have the same bottom end except for the bore size which makes no difference. i may not have experience building engines but i have always had non-vtec motors and i beat the **** out of them and know what they can take. i hate to see people that know nothing put them down and say there not reliable blah blah blah

 

Rest easy, grasshopper, you were one of the exceptions

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are only 3 people in here anyone should be listening to:
b19coupe
Combustion Contraption
JCushing

These guys have actual experience with motor building and non-VTEC wizardry. Almost everyone else is spouting off some pretty damn ridiculous nonsense.

To actually address the OP's question, I noticed a difference going from a B18 to a B20, keeping everything else (cams, header, etc.) exactly the same. With ARP rodbolts, I rev mine to 7500 regularly and haven't had any problems yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

they arent the onlys one

 

I haven't read anything/talked to anyone else in here, so they're the only ones I feel comfortable supporting. I also said "ALMOST everyone else".