i need some help tring to decide on what company to go with so far i have 3 picked. the first is who im leaning toward more. oh and this is for a non vtec head a 96 LS

1. Endyn http://www.theoldone.com/compo...u.htm

2. pure tuning http://www.pure-tuning.com/pag...a.htm

3. KMS http://www.honda-performance.c...g.asp

if you know any other companies that do god LS head PnP let me know and post a website

 

http://www.portflow.com
they do awesome work

 

I hate Endyn BUT will admit he did a good job on an LS head that a friend got fom him. It flowed like 260cfm which is about what a stock B Series VTEC head flows, i made good flow #s down low as well.

A VTEC Head flows about 250cfm + from teh get go and if you port it you can get flow #s up in the 300cfm range. It would be cheaper to get a VTEC head and slap on there stock then to port a LS head and get JUST the same flow #s as a stock VTEC head.

 

Endyn, without a doubt. Honda-tech hates on Larry, but he's an airflow wizard period. If you want the most out of a head, Larry will give it to you.

 

id say knock KMS off the list i have had problems getting a hold of them at times so....

 

headgames ftw!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_ex_95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.portflow.com
they do awesome work</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know about portflow and how good they are with Vtec heads but i've never heard anything about them and non-Vtec heads so thats why they are not on the list

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate Endyn BUT will admit he did a good job on an LS head that a friend got fom him. It flowed like 260cfm which is about what a stock B Series VTEC head flows, i made good flow #s down low as well.

A VTEC Head flows about 250cfm + from teh get go and if you port it you can get flow #s up in the 300cfm range. It would be cheaper to get a VTEC head and slap on there stock then to port a LS head and get JUST the same flow #s as a stock VTEC head. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i really dont want to go Vtec but i've considered it. everytime i look for a vtec head people $550 or up i dont understand that with $400 more i could buy a longblock B16. on top of that i dont plan on reving the motor pass 8K. i also dont wanna tune vtec im lazy . also buy the time i buy a vtec head $550 plus a good PnP $700 and the ls to vtec conversion $250 im well over a port job for a head that i already have

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Endyn, without a doubt. Honda-tech hates on Larry, but he's an airflow wizard period. If you want the most out of a head, Larry will give it to you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

why does everyone hate on larry i like him

 

Talk to BoostedJeff about a Justic racing head

 

whats a justic racing head and whats the website for headgames ive heard of them for vtec but not non-vtec

 

it should depend on how much you want to spend and what you want accomplished is what i would look at

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by riceburner700 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it should depend on how much you want to spend and what you want accomplished is what i would look at</TD></TR></TABLE>
im looking to net in the low 500hp range and get about 350tq if i can. i know it only rakes 270 tq to get in the low 12's high 11's but i want some a little more

i also dont want to spend more than a $1000

 

spend $400-500 and buy a vtec head. Or port the LS head yourself. They are so cheap if you expletive it up, you will get another one for $20. You get more lift out of vtec heads, and they flow better. If you are not planning to rev over 8k just run a stock vtec head.

 

the ls had will make lots of torque over the vtec head though, thats why i chose to do a ls build a while back. made 403whp and 342wtq, and i see 500+whp vtec set ups with less than that! i used the crower 404's , they were pretty nasty with boost, this was just a very mild p&p done by the guy that built my motor.. with a NICE p&p and some good cams it should pull some good numbers

 

http://www.stewartengines.com


my car has typically made about 100 horsepower more than any other car we have had on my dyno at every given boost level.

859 whp, 160mph traps, 100% reliable for 2 seasons. i dont think you can ask for anything more than that!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tannerLSt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the ls had will make lots of torque over the vtec head though, thats why i chose to do a ls build a while back. made 403whp and 342wtq, and i see 500+whp vtec set ups with less than that! i used the crower 404's , they were pretty nasty with boost, this was just a very mild p&p done by the guy that built my motor.. with a NICE p&p and some good cams it should pull some good numbers</TD></TR></TABLE>

The LS head only looks like it makes more torque. Where the LS made 402/342, an LS/VTEC would have made more like 475/325. The HP is going to do more for you than the torque...

I'd take a stock vtec head over a worked LS head any day. Much more cam selection, much better valvetrain/rocker setup, vtec, etc. There's a reason honda made vtec, and a reason why everything is vtec now...

Stock LS motors are great for boost, but if you're going to get into head work then a stock vtec head is the way to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The LS head only looks like it makes more torque. Where the LS made 402/342, an LS/VTEC would have made more like 475/325. The HP is going to do more for you than the torque...

I'd take a stock vtec head over a worked LS head any day. Much more cam selection, much better valvetrain/rocker setup, vtec, etc. There's a reason honda made vtec, and a reason why everything is vtec now...

Stock LS motors are great for boost, but if you're going to get into head work then a stock vtec head is the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I said this already in soo many words lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats a justic racing head and whats the website for headgames ive heard of them for vtec but not non-vtec </TD></TR></TABLE>

We don't have a website just yet, although it is under construction...but you can check out our http://www.myspace.com/headgamesmotorworks page to see pics of our work.

I do agree with Tony...I would do a Vtec head as well...but it's your wallet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HEAD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

We don't have a website just yet, although it is under construction...but you can check out our http://www.myspace.com/headgamesmotorworks page to see pics of our work.

I do agree with Tony...I would do a Vtec head as well...but it's your wallet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey I said VTEC head FIRST!!! lol

Dave, do youhave before and after flow #s for an LS as well as VTEC heads? I said above the original poster would be better off getting a BONE STOCK unported VTEC head over an LS head. But he took it to needing a port and polish on that still too. But oh well , people have made over 600whp on stock VTEC heads untouched other than springs and retainers


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A VTEC Head flows about 250cfm + from teh get go and if you port it you can get flow #s up in the 300cfm range. It would be cheaper to get a VTEC head and slap on there stock then to port a LS head and get JUST the same flow #s as a stock VTEC head. </TD></TR></TABLE>

and reply


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i really dont want to go Vtec but i've considered it. everytime i look for a vtec head people $550 or up i dont understand that with $400 more i could buy a longblock B16. on top of that i dont plan on reving the motor pass 8K. i also dont wanna tune vtec im lazy . also buy the time i buy a vtec head $550 plus a good PnP $700 and the ls to vtec conversion $250 im well over a port job for a head that i already have

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

sorry Terry...I agree with you the mostest

I have never put a LS head on the bench, I know that sounds ignorant but all of the guys with a LS head never would pay for a flowbench test. The head has potential but your limited on cams to take full advantage of the head. People have made 600+ on a vtec stock head, but stock valves break and not bend so I would at least upgrade the valvetrain and put a decent valvejob on a Vtec head if that was my budget, the porting won't hurt it. People have accomplished it with stock stuff, but when you have a wallet that allows you to not have to push your stuff to make the same power...I would do it.

 

spending money on building LS heads FTL!!


Ur going to have to cam ur LS head to reach 8k when a stock vtec head will do it without a hitch.If ur looking to make 500 reliable HP, then theres no question, VTEC FTW!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by quicksilver1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">headgames ftw!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Worst customer service and products ever. I got dicked around months by him on 4 heads I sent in. A simple valve-job on 2 heads took 5-6 months. 2 of the heads were cut wrong and wouldn't seat the valves, a k20 would not give the proper valve lash, and the other came back missing keepers. The k20 took him about 11 months to finally get done properly. Then he lost a K20a valve cover and blamed it on full-race. Full Race is in AZ and HG is in NJ. Long story short... Full-Race never had the valve-cover. This valve-cover took 4 months to show back up at our shop by the way and was shipped from Dave's NJ address. Every problem he pawned off on other people. He originally blamed Ed who used to work there for several mishaps but later James let me know in fact Dave's excuses were all bullshit. I can't even begin to tell you guys how many bullshit stories he threw me during the time I did business with him.

Dave still owes me $750 since last year. When he finally called me back months later his excuse was that he was in a 'car-accident.' I would say he is the the most unprofessional individual I have ever done business with. He's also dicked around James at MazWorx with a head he promised to have done for their 07 race season. They have yet to get their 'core' head back over a year later. All you get with this guy is in fact 'Head-Games' and heads that have to be fixed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Worst customer service and products ever. I got dicked around months by him on 4 heads I sent in. A simple valve-job on 2 heads took 5-6 months. 2 of the heads were cut wrong and wouldn't seat the valves, a k20 would not give the proper valve lash, and the other came back missing keepers. The k20 took him about 11 months to finally get done properly. Then he lost a K20a valve cover and blamed it on full-race. Full Race is in AZ and HG is in NJ. Long story short... Full-Race never had the valve-cover. This valve-cover took 4 months to show back up at our shop by the way and was shipped from Dave's NJ address. I can't even begin to tell you guys how many bullshit stories he threw me during the time I did business with him.

Dave still owes me $750 since last year. When he finally called me back months later his excuse was that he was in a 'car-accident.' I would say he is the the most unprofessional individual I have ever done business with. He's also dicked around James at MazWorx with a head he promised to have done for their 07 race season. They have yet to get their 'core' head back over a year later. All you get with this guy is in fact 'Head-Games' and heads that have to be fixed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow. I have spoke to Dave a couple times. Good guy the couple times I have spoke to him. Not saying what you posted isn't true. Just weird to hear

To the original poster. I can say anything everyone else hasnt already said. Buy a VTEC head

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alpha &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow. I have spoke to Dave a couple times. Good guy the couple times I have spoke to him. Not saying what you posted isn't true. Just weird to hear

To the original poster. I can say anything everyone else hasnt already said. Buy a VTEC head</TD></TR></TABLE>

He's a nice guy when he's trying to get you to send in a head. Who isn't nice when they are trying to make a dollar? It's people like him who give our industry such a bad name.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedEG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Talk to BoostedJeff about a Justic racing head </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you meant justice racing

http://www.justiceracingengines.com/

 

thank you for everyones input i am buying a Vtec head ( hate to admit it ).
now for all the guys who said im limited in cam selection i live 30min away from crane cams in daytona and could have some fabbed for me pretty easily. the question is what should i look for if i go that route i know i need a good lift and as little overlap as possible if i plan on keeping rpm at 8K.
also isnt the crower LS 404 cams the same specs as the ITR cam for a vtec. if so they both have over lap