hey, im going to be building a LSVTEC, and i just need some advice regarding making my LS sub handle 9000 rpm..

<U>the head is:</U>
-B16A
-toda spec B cams
-supertech springs and titanium retainers
-Z-speed cam gears
-0.5mm skim

<U>now, this is the proposed bottom end</U>, please feel free to add (and try keep the flaming minimal )

-LS block and crank
-P30 pistons and rings
-hone the cylinders
-eagle rods
-ARP rod and head bolts
-all new bearings
-balance the crank


<U>additional parts i'll need are:</U>
-stock B18B headgasket
-new valve seals
-GE LSVTEC oil feed kit
-2.5 inch exhaust
-i have a 4-1 header
-walboro 255 fuel pump
-*can i use my stock LS oil and water pump??*
-oil cooler perhaps
-AFPR and fuel rail
-??? cc injectors
-chip my p75 (add a VTEC module) and tune

any thing i've left out???

*ps* im from south africa, so most of the stuff thats not oem, i have to import, and the exchange rate makes me pay 7 and a half times what you would

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by . r i c h 9 9 0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

*ps* im from south africa, so most of the stuff thats not oem, i have to import, and the exchange rate makes me pay 7 and a half times what you would </TD></TR></TABLE>

Your list seems to be pretty good and although it can be better, just the fact that you have to pay 7.5 times more than most of us to change parts, kind of negates updating the list.

The one thing I would recommend since you intend to spin things to 9000rpm is a block girdle.

http://www.theoldone.com/components/block%5Fgirdle/

There are several other ones on the market, but this is just the one that came to mind at the moment.

good luck.

 

thanks dude, i'll definately look into that!!

oh, add to my list, im also thinking a baffled oil pan would help with reliability, seeing as the car is goin to see the track occasionally .

anyone going to recommend what size injectors? im guessing this setup will make something over 200hp at the fly?

 

The block girdle's always been a topic of discussion when the engine has forged rods/bolts. the rods and rod bolts you have chosen will be fine for 9k. I revved my LS/Vtec to over 9k with that same rod/bolt combo with 12.5:1 JE pistons for...3 years? Besides, if you look back a year or two, there were a couple threads where the block girdle actually caused bottom end damage, something to do with the alignment of it with the main caps. Then everybody started having machine shops install girdles, then I lost track of it cuz I don't use them. It'd take me forever to find those threads though. 2004-2005ish. So, form your own opinion, but there's plenty of motors as old as my old LS/Vtec (still running fine to this day, btw) 9k all the time, daily driven, no girdle.

On a totally different note... 7x? Why don't you get a middle man ;-) UPS you stuff. Or you could overnight parts from Japan...We'll put it on my tab at Harry's ;-)

 

I've been taking my LSVTEC to 9,000 RPM almost daily for a year and a half now.

Stock rods, ARP rod bolts.

I also have a girdle.

- Derek

 

redline on my setup is 9k, no girdle, stock rods, arp bolts.. see sig

 

Eagle rods on stock P30 pistons and rings???? I thought it was supposed to be the exact opposite. Aftermarket pistons on stock rods. no? hmmm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by . r i c h 9 9 0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks dude, i'll definately look into that!!

oh, add to my list, im also thinking a baffled oil pan would help with reliability, seeing as the car is goin to see the track occasionally .

anyone going to recommend what size injectors? im guessing this setup will make something over 200hp at the fly? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The baffling is a good idea and most people really like the Mugen pan here. Other popular pans include the one from Moroso.

I personally made my own baffles and had them welded in.

A buddy of mine runs 440cc RC Engineerings on his LS/V and injector duty is around 70% duty cycle (IIRC) with the stock Bseries fuel pump and an ITR FPR. I think his setup is just over 200whp on a dynojet which is probably about 220ish bhp.

I believe girdles are necessary when you are putting the car on a roadcourse. I can see how LS/Vs would survive daily bursts to 9000rpm or multiple passes down the drag strip or even sessions at AutoX with no girdle. But most HPDE days are run on a format of 4 X 20-30 minute sessions.

Even with the S2000's superior geometry in 2.0L form, it runs a huge girdle to ensure the crank doesn't get all out of shape at 9000rpm. Fitting a girdle on an LS/V is something that your machine shop ought to handle if you're unsure of the process.

I'm not calling anybody out on the legitimacy or invalidating anybody's experiences. But has anybody run an LS/V continuously without problems in HPDE or even in a racing series that allows LS/Vs - with no girdle?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FueLeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Eagle rods on stock P30 pistons and rings???? I thought it was supposed to be the exact opposite. Aftermarket pistons on stock rods. no? hmmm.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Both have been done. But the latter appears to be slightly more common.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aut0tek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you could overnight parts from Japan...We'll put it on my tab at Harry's ;-)</TD></TR></TABLE>

you're a good man!

hehe.
yea the exchange rate sucks so bad... but hey, its all in the name of a fast and reliable honda, so i'll cough up!!

bout the stock p30's, i might get some forged pistons, i only want to run around 11.3 cr at a max, and those p30's and the rest of my setup with the skimmed head i think is going to be around 12.
the problem is our fuel in south africa, its not the best i dont think, but the lowest obtane available is 95 we used to get 97 at the pumps too

im just worried about ping...

 

my recommendations are to balance the WHOLE rotating assembly, flywheel, flywheel bolts, RODS, PISTONS, and your crank. one of my eagle rods were 6 grams underweight from the others.. and try to use a oem head gasket if you can.. a lot of people complain about the GE one

 

i had no clue that endyn made a girdle, and the sheer shock of seeing it, caused me to order one, sort of like that pack of gum at the walmart check out, just a little more expensive.

 

just remember that forged rods and pistons use a full floating wrist pin and oem doohickeys use a pressed pin.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The baffling is a good idea and most people really like the Mugen pan here. Other popular pans include the one from Moroso.

I personally made my own baffles and had them welded in.

A buddy of mine runs 440cc RC Engineerings on his LS/V and injector duty is around 70% duty cycle (IIRC) with the stock Bseries fuel pump and an ITR FPR. I think his setup is just over 200whp on a dynojet which is probably about 220ish bhp.

I believe girdles are necessary when you are putting the car on a roadcourse. I can see how LS/Vs would survive daily bursts to 9000rpm or multiple passes down the drag strip or even sessions at AutoX with no girdle. But most HPDE days are run on a format of 4 X 20-30 minute sessions.

Even with the S2000's superior geometry in 2.0L form, it runs a huge girdle to ensure the crank doesn't get all out of shape at 9000rpm. Fitting a girdle on an LS/V is something that your machine shop ought to handle if you're unsure of the process.

I'm not calling anybody out on the legitimacy or invalidating anybody's experiences. But has anybody run an LS/V continuously without problems in HPDE or even in a racing series that allows LS/Vs - with no girdle?


Both have been done. But the latter appears to be slightly more common.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i totally agree, if i ever did a hpde event in my car i would probly shift at 7500 or so, hince i have no girdle.. so far motor has about 2500 miles, about 25-30 passes at the strip, and about 25 passes on the dyno, not to mention all the beatings on the street.."nock on wood" i really need to buy a ati damper asap..

 

what size injectors would you guys recommend with this setup?

somewhere around400cc?

 

running 440's on my setup w/ 255hp pump. its safe to say i went over board on the fuel setup..

 

I agree with needing the girdle for autocross and such. But you should be ok for street/track draggin.The 1st gen B16's didnt have them so im not too worried about it, But then again if i had the extra time and especially side cash i wouldnt mind throwing one on my LsV.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaBurger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree with needing the girdle for autocross and such. But you should be ok for street/track draggin.The 1st gen B16's didnt have them so im not too worried about it, But then again if i had the extra time and especially side cash i wouldnt mind throwing one on my LsV.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Regardless of generation, all B16As did not have a girdle. Most seem to agree that it was not necessary due to the stout rods but perhaps it's due to the inherently low cylinder side loading 1.74 rod stroke ratio.

. r i c h 9 9 0 - you don't mention specifically what you will be using to tune your motor? crome? hondata? uberdata?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

. r i c h 9 9 0 - you don't mention specifically what you will be using to tune your motor? crome? hondata? uberdata?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i would love to use crome or hondata, but the problem is, no one in south africa tunes with either of those, which sucks.

im thinking of using my stock P75 ecu and using a dastek unichip with a VTEC module added as a piggyback, or, we have a locally developed system called dicktator thats a complete management system, and the honda guys here have had really good results with that.

otherwise i've heard good things about perfect power smt 6.

 

one last thing, will the stock B18B conrods handle 9000rpm?

this motor is going to have to last...

 

I wouldnt mind getting the hondata s300, the only blow about it is that it costs so much. Eventually i would like to get familiar enough with that software so i could tune it myself.

 

I would just use the ls rods if you going with p30 pistons. Plus it will save you some $$$$
Just upgrade to arp rod bolts and you could get the rods shotpeened at a machine shop but that's not neccessary.
I also would recommend using a vtec oil and water pump instead.

 

Don't buy into the "type R water pump!" hype either, when it comes to OBD2, all the water and oil pumps are the same, from LS to Hype R.

But any OBD0/1 VTEC oil and water pump would be nice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by . r i c h 9 9 0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">one last thing, will the stock B18B conrods handle 9000rpm?

this motor is going to have to last...</TD></TR></TABLE>


I turn mine to 9400 rpm's with balanced stock rods and ARP hardware. All motor and nitrous as well. No issues whatsoever and the car drives as reliably as stock.

 

must be nice to rev to 9k, on my integra it seems like its gunna blow up when i hit 6.5k

 

I have set revlimit to 9200. No girdle, forged rods... 1000 miles of abuse, no problem yet.

My spare LS block has girdle, forged rods... I will spin that a little higher.