toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header +crome + blundar tuned = 190whp?
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From: Atlantis
toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp?
I posted this in the itr forum, but figured you guys might also be interested in it.....
A little background:
this motor was in my '00 itr (b18c5).
way back years ago, I added toda B's and a vafc, toda header and aem cai. playing with the cam gears and dyno tuning, it made 191whp. this was with ps and ac installed:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=213963&page=2
well i wrecked that car, so i put this motor into my hatchback.
i went back to stock cams for a while:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=948820
i changed some things around and with toda spec c's, aem short ram, and hytech header it made 186whp using hondata with cam gears at 0,0. this was with ac but no ps.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1089192
fast forward to present, and the car now makes 190/130 with spec c's and toda itb's + hytech header...
i was hoping to crack 200whp with stock itr head and stock itr bottom end.
at this point i'm thinking of maybe going k20a or just adding a jrsc for the torque since i primarily autox this car.....
i know lots of people are now cracking 190whp with just bolt-ons + stock cams and maybe thinner headgasket, etc...
so, what do you think?
I was trying to find a repeatable formula so that people could just do basic things like bolt-ons and cams + tune to make 200whp reliably.
I'm really starting to think that it isn't possible with a stock head and bottom end (b18c5).
I'm going to let it sit for a few days and think about my next move.
Of course I could probably have just had the head ported and made more power with stock cams - as we know the head is where the power is... but I was hesitant to do that with so few miles. Also, I felt that for the average person to remove the head would be too much to ask of them. I know I can do it, but I really wanted to figure out a way for the average joe to make power without doing so.
*this latest tune was done with a socketed p28 on crome pro by blundar on Tuesday. I drove up Monday night and he did it Tuesday and I drove home that night. I'm still tired as fawk from that drive!
we tried all of these combinations:
0, 0
+2, 0
0, +2
-2, 0
0, -2
+2, -2
-2, -2
etc.
these cams liked to be at 0,0. everything else lost power.
base timing is 16deg and i can post the .bin if anyone wants to review it.
plugs were bkr7e-11's gapped at .032"
A little background:
this motor was in my '00 itr (b18c5).
way back years ago, I added toda B's and a vafc, toda header and aem cai. playing with the cam gears and dyno tuning, it made 191whp. this was with ps and ac installed:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=213963&page=2
well i wrecked that car, so i put this motor into my hatchback.
i went back to stock cams for a while:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=948820
i changed some things around and with toda spec c's, aem short ram, and hytech header it made 186whp using hondata with cam gears at 0,0. this was with ac but no ps.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1089192
fast forward to present, and the car now makes 190/130 with spec c's and toda itb's + hytech header...
i was hoping to crack 200whp with stock itr head and stock itr bottom end.
at this point i'm thinking of maybe going k20a or just adding a jrsc for the torque since i primarily autox this car.....
i know lots of people are now cracking 190whp with just bolt-ons + stock cams and maybe thinner headgasket, etc...
so, what do you think?
I was trying to find a repeatable formula so that people could just do basic things like bolt-ons and cams + tune to make 200whp reliably.
I'm really starting to think that it isn't possible with a stock head and bottom end (b18c5).
I'm going to let it sit for a few days and think about my next move.
Of course I could probably have just had the head ported and made more power with stock cams - as we know the head is where the power is... but I was hesitant to do that with so few miles. Also, I felt that for the average person to remove the head would be too much to ask of them. I know I can do it, but I really wanted to figure out a way for the average joe to make power without doing so.
*this latest tune was done with a socketed p28 on crome pro by blundar on Tuesday. I drove up Monday night and he did it Tuesday and I drove home that night. I'm still tired as fawk from that drive!
we tried all of these combinations:
0, 0
+2, 0
0, +2
-2, 0
0, -2
+2, -2
-2, -2
etc.
these cams liked to be at 0,0. everything else lost power.
base timing is 16deg and i can post the .bin if anyone wants to review it.
plugs were bkr7e-11's gapped at .032"
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From: Atlantis
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (chris_tune)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris_tune »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOW that is an UGLY a/f graph was the wideband sensor bad? </TD></TR></TABLE>
that's the sniffer in the tailpipe.
the wideband in the header was connected to his laptop.
that's the sniffer in the tailpipe.
the wideband in the header was connected to his laptop.
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From: Atl. Beach, fl, duval
Re: (BolivianFuego)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BolivianFuego »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">make 235whp and 160tq on a all stock head/bottom end/ and stock Intake Manifold. 
</TD></TR></TABLE> Black R you need to go dyno there.
</TD></TR></TABLE> Black R you need to go dyno there.
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From: Atlantis
Re: (DonF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Black R you need to go dyno there. </TD></TR></TABLE>
haha, judging by his sig he has a k20a - so that would definitely explain it!
haha, judging by his sig he has a k20a - so that would definitely explain it!
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From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i know lots of people are now cracking 190whp with just bolt-ons + stock cams and maybe thinner headgasket, etc...
so, what do you think?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just now?
We did it 4 years ago for Expo 3 on the old man's car. It also has a cat.
i know lots of people are now cracking 190whp with just bolt-ons + stock cams and maybe thinner headgasket, etc...
so, what do you think?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just now?
We did it 4 years ago for Expo 3 on the old man's car. It also has a cat.
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From: Atlantis
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (SMSP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just now?
We did it 4 years ago for Expo 3 on the old man's car. It also has a cat.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ported head? tisk tisk!
Just now?
We did it 4 years ago for Expo 3 on the old man's car. It also has a cat.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ported head? tisk tisk!
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From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Black R)
Do not be soo hung up on numbers. You can dyno some where else and probably make more power. But yet, you did not make change to the car....
You checked the condition of the motor?
You checked the condition of the motor?
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From: Atlantis
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do not be soo hung up on numbers. You can dyno some where else and probably make more power. But yet, you did not make change to the car....
You checked the condition of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
you come very highly recommended as a tuner in your area.
what change (as you reference in your post) to the car did i not make?
You checked the condition of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
you come very highly recommended as a tuner in your area.
what change (as you reference in your post) to the car did i not make?
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 5,135
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From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ported head? tisk tisk!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeh, to the tune of about $450 if I remember correctly. DonF 
Maybe better spent money than Toda Cs and Toda ITBs??
ported head? tisk tisk!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeh, to the tune of about $450 if I remember correctly.
DonF Maybe better spent money than Toda Cs and Toda ITBs??
Thread Starter
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From: Atlantis
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (SMSP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeh, to the tune of about $450 if I remember correctly. DonF
Maybe better spent money than Toda Cs and Toda ITBs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
definitely.
although downtime is a lot less with the aforementioned mods.
Yeh, to the tune of about $450 if I remember correctly.
DonF Maybe better spent money than Toda Cs and Toda ITBs??
</TD></TR></TABLE>definitely.
although downtime is a lot less with the aforementioned mods.
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From: usa
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do not be soo hung up on numbers. You can dyno some where else and probably make more power. But yet, you did not make change to the car....
You checked the condition of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed. Have you run your car any times at a race track to compare times? That IMO is better than any Dynojet read.
You checked the condition of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed. Have you run your car any times at a race track to compare times? That IMO is better than any Dynojet read.
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From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you come very highly recommended as a tuner in your area.
what change (as you reference in your post) to the car did i not make?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you
If it was my car, I would make sure the motor is in good condition. Then start blaming the JDM bling Like SMSP said, moneywould be spend in better places.
you come very highly recommended as a tuner in your area.
what change (as you reference in your post) to the car did i not make?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you
If it was my car, I would make sure the motor is in good condition. Then start blaming the JDM bling
Like SMSP said, moneywould be spend in better places.
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From: Canada
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do not be soo hung up on numbers. You can dyno some where else and probably make more power. But yet, you did not make change to the car....
You checked the condition of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly, it's just a number.
Although, at 3500ft above sea level and on a mustang dyno - to see 171whp is tough (I know....). But, I'm sure it is worse for the guys that make "200+whp" and still get pulled on though
You checked the condition of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly, it's just a number.
Although, at 3500ft above sea level and on a mustang dyno - to see 171whp is tough (I know....). But, I'm sure it is worse for the guys that make "200+whp" and still get pulled on though
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From: Atlantis
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thank you
If it was my car, I would make sure the motor is in good condition. Then start blaming the JDM bling Like SMSP said, moneywould be spend in better places.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, see here's the clincher:
i have a dart talldeck with scat 95mm crank, eagle rods, endyne pistons, and erl block girdle down at DonF's shop in FL. it is finished/ machined/ assembled/ balanced. i just need to buy a head. now you see why i didn't really do anything to this stock b18c5 motor......
Thank you
If it was my car, I would make sure the motor is in good condition. Then start blaming the JDM bling
Like SMSP said, moneywould be spend in better places.</TD></TR></TABLE>well, see here's the clincher:
i have a dart talldeck with scat 95mm crank, eagle rods, endyne pistons, and erl block girdle down at DonF's shop in FL. it is finished/ machined/ assembled/ balanced. i just need to buy a head. now you see why i didn't really do anything to this stock b18c5 motor......
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From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: toda itb's + toda c's + hytech header + b18c5 + crome + blundar tuned = 190whp? (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well, see here's the clincher:
i have a dart talldeck with scat 95mm crank, eagle rods, endyne pistons, and erl block girdle down at DonF's shop in FL. it is finished/ machined/ assembled/ balanced. i just need to buy a head. now you see why i didn't really do anything to this stock b18c5 motor......</TD></TR></TABLE>
ahah, I see. Just have fun with the motor then. or supercharge it
well, see here's the clincher:
i have a dart talldeck with scat 95mm crank, eagle rods, endyne pistons, and erl block girdle down at DonF's shop in FL. it is finished/ machined/ assembled/ balanced. i just need to buy a head. now you see why i didn't really do anything to this stock b18c5 motor......
</TD></TR></TABLE>ahah, I see. Just have fun with the motor then.
or supercharge it
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From: Tampa, Florida, Hillsborough
Wow, I think there is something wrong there, you might want to go get a baseline on another dyno...
Are u still using Hondata??
I had an Ls/Vtec with 12.5:1 comp, sk2 stg2 cams, an-r header, type r manifold making 205whp/148 ft/lbs, tuned off a vafc. I would think with the ITBs would put it over 200whp, even on a stock motor w/ cams, with a good tune via Hondata.
Are u still using Hondata??
I had an Ls/Vtec with 12.5:1 comp, sk2 stg2 cams, an-r header, type r manifold making 205whp/148 ft/lbs, tuned off a vafc. I would think with the ITBs would put it over 200whp, even on a stock motor w/ cams, with a good tune via Hondata.
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From: InterWebbs, NC
Have you checked your compression lately?
I tuned a freshy rebuilt lsvtec that had low numbers (Hp/tq) across the board, as it turned out the compression was just low and and motor should have been bored during the rebuild.
I tune with crome and would be interested in seeing your .bin
I tuned a freshy rebuilt lsvtec that had low numbers (Hp/tq) across the board, as it turned out the compression was just low and and motor should have been bored during the rebuild.
I tune with crome and would be interested in seeing your .bin
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Re: (pasaunde)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pasaunde »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you checked your compression lately?
I tuned a freshy rebuilt lsvtec that had low numbers (Hp/tq) across the board, as it turned out the compression was just low and and motor should have been bored during the rebuild.
I tune with crome and would be interested in seeing your .bin</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll post the .bin here in a bit... gotta upload the file.
I tuned a freshy rebuilt lsvtec that had low numbers (Hp/tq) across the board, as it turned out the compression was just low and and motor should have been bored during the rebuild.
I tune with crome and would be interested in seeing your .bin</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll post the .bin here in a bit... gotta upload the file.
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: (Black R)
kenneth , kenneth, kenneth.
you know that almost NO ONE makes over 190whp out here. especially on a stock block/head.
IMO enjoy what you got, no sense in changing it, and that motor has seen enough abuse over the years that the fact its still making those numbers is AMAZING.
the only other thing i might do is try some PRO1s, just to see the comparison.
im willing to bet there is NO HEADER,BOLT ON, CAM that will push your motor over 200whp, not in GA at least, not unless you dyno at knowledge performance lol.
good numbers still
you know that almost NO ONE makes over 190whp out here. especially on a stock block/head.
IMO enjoy what you got, no sense in changing it, and that motor has seen enough abuse over the years that the fact its still making those numbers is AMAZING.
the only other thing i might do is try some PRO1s, just to see the comparison.
im willing to bet there is NO HEADER,BOLT ON, CAM that will push your motor over 200whp, not in GA at least, not unless you dyno at knowledge performance lol.
good numbers still