this is the situation...
i just finished installing my suspension today on my 00 gsr and i feel a noticetable "mushyness" when it comes to my steering response. it doesnt feel as accurate as it was before( including my old integra)

NEW '00 gsr setup
Tein Flex
17x7.5 volk wheels
205/40/17 kumho ecsta spt
dc sport rear lower tie bar

OLD '00 gsr setup ( before today)
KYB AGX
Eibach Sportline
15x6.5 gsr swirlies
195/55/15 michelin pilot exalto
dc sport rear lower tie bar
stock gsr front strut bar

OLD '98 ls setup (1st ever car, got stolen)
Tein Flex
17x7.5 volk wheels
205/40/17 Hankook Ventus HRII (all seasons)
Tenzo R front strut bar

how is it my LS had a better steering response, and then followed by my old setup in my new gsr? it seems like the car is not doing what im telling it to. i never had any problems with that until today...
i need some help on why this would be? since i know the stock gsr sway bar is bigger than the LS, but my LS handled better? thanks


Modified by JdmTypeRdc2 at 8:04 AM 6/19/2007

 

Here are some possibilities:

did you clock your bushings before your old suspension set up? If not, they were probably weakened by the sportlines. If you lowered it more with the flex without clocking them, they may have torn.

The flex comes at setting #16. The softest setting on the dampers. #1 is the hardest setting. Clockwise to stiffen, counter clockwise to soften. Dont soften past #16. it may damage the damper. I believe that's the way Tein does it. Check with your dealer, though.

Did you have an alignment? If your tires are toed IN, it will cause slower steering response. When you lower an integra/civic, without changing anything else, the front will always toe OUT. This will improve steering response but also increase mid corner under steer. This is also what wears out tires. So it would be weird if the car was toed IN up front, unless you got it aligned or put a camber kit on or something.

If your rear suspension is toed IN (which is what happens when you lower an integra/civic), it might increase the sluggish handling.

Check steering components, and make sure they're all tight.

Your new tires may just have a softer sidewall. I know hankooks have very soft sidewalls. Maybe all Korean manufacturers like soft sidewalls.

 

did you get an alignment? maybe check your tie rods


Modified by alexisthemovie at 10:02 AM 6/22/2007

 

the bushings were not clocked before the suspension went in.
the setting was on the hardest when i put them in but i turned it down to a little past halfway, around 7.
also in my old ls i never put the rear shocks in because the lower control arm bolt seized so i didnt put them in. i only had the 2 front shocks in.
in the new gsr i put in all 4 because since the car is newer, the bolt didnt seize.
the car is not aligned yet, but neither was my old ls, and it handled way better than my new gsr.
about the tires, i heard the spts are better than the hankooks, so i dont know if thats the problem.
when you say check steering components, you mean what?

the only things that are different from my old LS and my new GSR is:

1) removed front gsr strut bar ( because it did not clear the shock dampening adjustment ****
2) kumho spt rather than the Hankook HRII
3) rear shocks were installed this time around.

the shocks were set at the same height, and stiffness too. on my ls i ran a 8 setting the first day and increased it to 14 a couple of days later.

with the new gsr, i put it on 7 and have no strut bar...

 

Get it aligned!


Modified by alexisthemovie at 9:37 PM 6/18/2007

 

o yea no question about it...the alignment is getting done tomorrow.
however, i dont think thats the problem because like i said, my old ls was not aligned and it handled my better.
so i dont know whats going on with it...

 

but what are you using to judge "better handling"? are you taken certain turns slower than you could before?

 

dude you took out the front bar? Also how much did you lower it, if it's slammed you will get bump steer on a fwd car. Ultimate performance the front should be a little higher than the back for ride height.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleeperGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude you took out the front bar? Also how much did you lower it, if it's slammed you will get bump steer on a fwd car. Ultimate performance the front should be a little higher than the back for ride height. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well...the rear of a car can bump steer as well.

lol maybe it's just the leather in the GSR making you think it's not handling as well. What are your air pressures like? Are they the same as the LS setup?

Clocking your bushings FTW....this might have little to do with your problem now, but it will be a HUGE problem later. Take the 5 mins to do this.

 

my judgement of better handling is not even taking hard turns, but just cruising through the streets... my ls was very predictable even going slow...after i installed my suspension on my old ls, i took it out for a spin around town to see if everything was good, and the steering was on point, but with the new gsr, its like i turn the wheel to the right for example, and the car doesnt actually turn til like 3 seconds later. it feels unresponsive, or mushy like it doesnt want to do what i say.
then i took the gsr on the highway to test some turns and its not quite as bad as city driving, but its still worse than how my ls took those turns when i test drove it...
had the same ride height, dampening, and the front is somewhat lower than the back but not my much...
the front strut bar is out on my new gsr but it was in place on my old car.
lol the leather seats have nothing to do with it, i dont think..
the air pressures are the way i always keep my tires, i believe theyre 33 or 35 on all 4 tires.
everything on each car was IDENTICAL, so i dont see why this would be...
as for the clocking of the bushings, how is this done, so i can do it today?
im also gonna try to put the front strut bar back on and see if that makes a difference along with setting the flex at a higher dampening..
its gotta be something like that because all the specs are the same, just like ive always had them...i guess ill post back later this afternoon to tell you guys how it went...

 

If you changed out the wheel combo at the same time, it's probably your tires.

Try swapping in the GS-R rims with the Michelins and see if that changes steering response.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you changed out the wheel combo at the same time, it's probably your tires.

Try swapping in the GS-R rims with the Michelins and see if that changes steering response.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats actually what i was thinking...i might do that today as well...cuz i bet its the tires or strut bar...i mean everything else is the same...so it has to be something that changed this time around ( either the tires or strut bar) cuz those are the only things that are not there...

should i just swap out the 2 front wheels?? or should i do all 4?

i gotta try everything out today, and ill get back with results later on and hopefully feel better...
thanks for all the help...

 

well did you go from stock to lowered on your ls? so there was a drastic change?

you went from sportlines to teins on your GSR. Maybe what you're experiencing is that there is not as much of a difference from one set up to the other.

 

Is the car lowered more now than it was before? It might be lowered too much, putting the roll center below the surface of the ground, which can make the car actually handle worse.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JdmTypeRdc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats actually what i was thinking...i might do that today as well...cuz i bet its the tires or strut bar...i mean everything else is the same...so it has to be something that changed this time around ( either the tires or strut bar) cuz those are the only things that are not there...

should i just swap out the 2 front wheels?? or should i do all 4?

i gotta try everything out today, and ill get back with results later on and hopefully feel better...
thanks for all the help... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, now that you mention the front strut tower bar...I'm pretty sure that is the culprit along with the change in tires. I've taken my front strut bar off a couple of times and it made a noticeable difference in steering response. You should definitely put it back on.

I would swap all 4 rims/tires. Using different tires with different compounds can upset the balance of the car under hard braking.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is the car lowered more now than it was before? It might be lowered too much, putting the roll center below the surface of the ground, which can make the car actually handle worse.</TD></TR></TABLE>

took the words out of my mouth.

 

my old ls went from:

tokico shocks and eibach springs
to the tein flex

the new gsr went from:

kyb agx with eibach springs
to tein flex with the same drop, dampening as i had in my ls.

everything was the same...same drop all around on both the ls and gsr, since the tein were swapped over, they retained the same specs and no adjustments were made...

 

Put your old rim/tire combo back onto the car. SPT's don't have the softest sidewalls, but they sure as hell aren't the firmest either!

 

ok so im back with a little update....
i put on the strut bar, which made a noticeable difference but still felt "different" than my last car. so i kinda concluded this:

1) the rear shocks might be the issue since i never installed them on my last car
2) Tires

this weekend im gonna try to put on my old wheels to see if theres a difference...i cant do it anytime soon cuz the weather is not allowing me to.

 

hey guys, i was just wondering, should i get an alignment now or should i wait to get a camber kit and then align it?

right now i would like to align the toe, but if i get a camber kit in a couple of weeks, would i have to align it again??
also how do you tell how many degrees ( + or -) of camber a car has? ill take some pics today after work and post them. and then you guys can let me know if the camber is severe or not..i would like to keep like -1 degree but i think i have more than that...
what are the honda specs on camber?? thanks

 

Camber kit shouldn't really be necessary, and will only increase chances of clearance problems with the upper a-arm and the shock tower.

Get it aligned and leave the camber where it is.

 

yea ive read that it wasnt necessary but it just looks like my camber is out of control lol...
another question,..
if i get it aligned at the stance that its at right now, and i decide to drop it like 1/4 or 1/2 an inch for a show or something. or in another case, what if i decide to raise it up a bit when winter comes. will i also need to get another alignment for that as well??

 

The car needs to be aligned any time the ride height is changed, if you're going to drive it at the new height for any significant amount of time. You could change it for a show as long as you keep track of how much you adjust and put it back to exactly where it was before.

 

ok im back with another update...i just got the car aligned this morning. the front had a -3 degrees of camber, and -1.9 of toe. the rear was perfect since i didnt drop it that much...it had .01 toe, and i think -1 of camber.
is the front camber severe enough to get a camber kit? or should i be fine??

now, everytime i drive, i seem to be rubbing up front either on the inner fender lining or on the outer fender when turning...i wanted to raise the car up a bit to decrease the rubbing and get rid of some of that camber. i would like to set it at -2 or so...but what sucks is that i already did my alignment today, so any changes in ride height would mean that the toe would come out of spec again.
i didnt want to get another alignment this soon. is there anything else that i can do?? any suggestions?


Modified by JdmTypeRdc2 at 12:43 AM 6/24/2007