plan to do a track day? upgrade your brakes first!

i just had a track day today. on my third session my brakes went away completely till they cooled down.

i was coming down the front straight at 120+ into turn one and you have to break hard, heal toe down into 3rd. i was hard on a lotus elise's *** for the past 4 laps. (2.5 mile road course). anyway, i stepped on the brakes, had some initial bite and then around 75-80 the pedal went to the floor and nothing. it was so severe i dont even think spoon calipers would have helped. when i finally came to a stop after blowing through the turn and onto the run off. a huge cloud of smoke came off my brakes like the motor had just blown. it took about 30 seconds for the brakes to come back.

if your gonna do any kind of track days i suggest something w/ 4+ pistons. all the scca guys there told me to go buy a set of brembo calipers and slotted rotors. not drilled. i mean oem brakes (5000 miles) only lasted 4-5 laps of hard racing till they got to hot and would not work anymore. i still have one more day, tomorrow and well see how well they hold up. they bumped me up a class for tomorrow cause they think i can hang w/ the vettes and porsches. well see how well i do and its all gonna come down to how well the brakes hold up.

i wasnt the only car experiencing brake problems. a g35 and mustang mach 1 both toasted there brakes and had to run to a local auto parts store and replace them. a vette split a pad and it fell out.

i did learn to conserve my brakes a little after that fade problem. but tomorrow, to hang with those high HP cars i'm gonna have to use all i can out of the car.

im gonna try something like hawk pads and brembo slotted rotors next time i have a track day and see if they last a little longer.

 

damn, you beat the **** out of your car lol.

i've had my brakes fad one me once. i didnt see any smoke but it was just as bad.

but props for running with g35's, mustangs, and corvettes.

i'd take my hat off to you if i had one.

 

I've noticed the brakes in my FA5 suck even when I'm not tracking the car..

In traffic sometimes when I have to make a hard stop, the car just doesn't stop as quickly as I'd like it to. I should prolly look into upgrading them as well

 

The brakes are great for street driving, but yea most track reviews on our cars said they fade very badly. So badly some people even notice a severe difference even after a lap. I personally always change to Hawk HPS pads before ever tracking, that always gave me some added strength.

But yeah, back when I tracked an S2000, even those brakes fade after a few, and those are supposedly the best OEM Honda brakes.

 

maybe you schould think about up grading your brake fluid too up to somthing with a higher boiling point that will help alot too
i also have noticed that the brakes feel like they could be alittle better i thought it might be the proportioning valve it just doesnt feel like ther is enough pressure at the front cailipers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fg2si!kid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe you schould think about up grading your brake fluid too up to somthing with a higher boiling point that will help alot too
i also have noticed that the brakes feel like they could be alittle better i thought it might be the proportioning valve it just doesnt feel like ther is enough pressure at the front cailipers </TD></TR></TABLE>

has no relavence. brake fluid is in a seal unit. my brakes fluid is fine. if it boiled i would have no brakes once it cooled down. theres no air in the lines. the brakes are back to the way they were.

 

I smoked all my brakes out once too but it was extreme conditions. I plan for Hawk HP+ before i get on the track or go for another drive as intense

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exhaust_note &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

has no relavence. brake fluid is in a seal unit. my brakes fluid is fine. if it boiled i would have no brakes once it cooled down. theres no air in the lines. the brakes are back to the way they were.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you actually went to a track even with oem pads? If so, you've got ***** the size of coconuts! My axxis ultimates faded noticeably half way through each session when I tracked it at Limerock, in November, while it was snowing! I can't imagine how bad they would have been had it been summer on a more technical track. What track were you at anyway? After you upgrade the pads, your next weak link will be the fluid though, so I'd do some research on what to go with next. I've been happy with ATE Superblue. Good luck with the upgrades

 

i would strongly suggest a better brake fluid seeing as how the very intelligent honda engineers decided to route the brake lines right next the the header of the car and would account for a lot of heat transfer. what i am going to do is wrap them up with cool tape so the heat transfer is minimized and also switch to motul or ATE with SS brake lines. haven't decided on pads yet, but maybe axxis ultimates. do they fade really easy?

 

Axxis are great pads for the street, spirited driving, auto-x, and entry level tracking - My first track event they held up pretty well with minor fade. By my second event, I was carrying greater speeds into the turns and the fade was a bit more noticeable. And as I mentioned before this was late fall in new england with temperatures in the high 30s (made for a greasy track). If you're in LV, I'd get ultimates for the street and a dedicated set of track pada - then you've got all bases covered. Call Cobalt Friction and talk to Andy, he's very knowledgeable about anything brake related and will honestly tell you your best options within your budget. for awesome service on their part.

 

You need to upgrade the fluid. The brake lines run right along the firewall where the header is. It is heating up and causing it to fade. Alot car testers complained about the fading.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Caveman74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to upgrade the fluid. The brake lines run right along the firewall where the header is. It is heating up and causing it to fade. Alot car testers complained about the fading. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pads need upgrading as well. Theres no way OEM pads will work for a track day (unless its your first track day and even then i wouldn't recommend it)

 

Aside from 'cool tape' as Reaper said, what else can you use to insulate the lines from heat transfer? Is it the same stuff I've seen headers wrapped in? Where can you get the stuff?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by piotrush &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aside from 'cool tape' as Reaper said, what else can you use to insulate the lines from heat transfer? Is it the same stuff I've seen headers wrapped in? Where can you get the stuff?</TD></TR></TABLE>

summit racing

http://store.summitracing.com/...=+115

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Nishant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Pads need upgrading as well. Theres no way OEM pads will work for a track day (unless its your first track day and even then i wouldn't recommend it)</TD></TR></TABLE>

well they lasted me thru the weekend but they still suck.... im gonna look into some slotted rotors, spoon pads and spoon calipers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exhaust_note &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well they lasted me thru the weekend but they still suck.... im gonna look into some slotted rotors, spoon pads and spoon calipers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats a bit suprising but it all depends on your driving and the track. on my first track day, i ran cobalt gt sports up front and new oem pads rear on my s2k. The rears started making that screeching noise when the pads get low on my way home. That was only 2 days with 4 20 min sessions each day.

You should be good with upgraded pads and fluids for the next track day

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exhaust_note &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well they lasted me thru the weekend but they still suck.... im gonna look into some slotted rotors, spoon pads and spoon calipers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

why not buy these...pretty good deal.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums...44064

 

hey ! mr note im sorry i could not make it to the track I would have like to run with you but I did not have the $$. I was wondering if you have steal break lines I heard thay help alot with fade. I have the same problem under hard braeking on the roads I was doing about 50 mph and someone cut right in front of me the breaks went to the floor, I cam close to hiting that car. let me know what works for you on the break thing. thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exhaust_note &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">plan to do a track day? upgrade your brakes first!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not sure why you thought the stock brakes would hold up through a full track day....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exhaust_note &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well they lasted me thru the weekend but they still suck.... im gonna look into some slotted rotors, spoon pads and spoon calipers.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats a bit much.... My brakes were fine at the track with upgraded pads and ATE super blue fluid with stock rotors and calipers. You should read through the other Brakes topic in this forum

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BAR296 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm not sure why you thought the stock brakes would hold up through a full track day....


Thats a bit much.... My brakes were fine at the track with upgraded pads and ATE super blue fluid with stock rotors and calipers. You should read through the other Brakes topic in this forum</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know how toasting your brakes necessitates new calipers w/o first seeing what a decent set of pads and new fluid would do for you, either.

 

i mean nooooo offense or anything but.. if you're on a track racing lotus' on stock honda breaks, what do you expect ? plain and simple, u can't be "on their ***" around a turn like that, feel your car out, if u felt it u'd feel the quality of stock breaks present. For stock brakes, driving in teh city and the odd highway trip, oem brakes are great. for slapping your needle off the redline at downshifts with intense braking, you need 4+ pistons as you said.. drilled and slotted rotors, a setup to handle a track like your saying is retarted expensive for what you're getting. also get the blue brake fluid, i forget which it's called. but the fluid itself is denser which stiffens up your brakes for response

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blue rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

why not buy these...pretty good deal.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums...44064</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks, i may look into that.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hoodkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i mean nooooo offense or anything but.. if you're on a track racing lotus' on stock honda breaks, what do you expect ? plain and simple, u can't be "on their ***" around a turn like that, feel your car out, if u felt it u'd feel the quality of stock breaks present. For stock brakes, driving in teh city and the odd highway trip, oem brakes are great. for slapping your needle off the redline at downshifts with intense braking, you need 4+ pistons as you said.. drilled and slotted rotors, a setup to handle a track like your saying is retarted expensive for what you're getting. also get the blue brake fluid, i forget which it's called. but the fluid itself is denser which stiffens up your brakes for response</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks genius. the brakes did the braking job FANTASTIC. they just don't have endurance. i had a extra set of pads w/ me cause i knew it would happen. i just wanted to see how bad. ill take advice from people that can spell.

 

Definitely get better pads and replace your brake fluid with Motul, or another good brake fluid. It would be a bit much to go all out with a huge brake kit, you might not even need it.
This will also save you money in the long run, if you plan on doing more track days.


Modified by EK4civichatch at 3:10 AM 6/19/2007