I bought a 97 Accord about 3 months ago... I did the average tune up, and noticed that the CV boot was torn on the left side. Anyways... I replaced the shaft with one from Autozone...

So today when I did the oil change... I noticed some ATF on the bottom of the tranny . The question is... Would using non-OEM parts be responsible for this leak?... or was there a seal that I missed when putting the shaft in?

 

Did you make shure the axle is all the way in? Front wheel drive cars can be a bitch like that.. But ive heard of bad axles. Your axle isnt brand new. Its remanufactured. Just tyr to pinpoint where the leak is coming from.


-Eric

 

Thanks for the reply.. When I looked at it... it seemed like it was coming from where the axle pops in on the left side of the tranny... That's what made me think that it might be because the axle wasn't OEM. And I don't think they were rebuilt... I could be wrong though. When we put it in, we pushed it in until it "popped" in. Do they go in any further?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeoWaterDragon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the reply.. When I looked at it... it seemed like it was coming from where the axle pops in on the left side of the tranny... That's what made me think that it might be because the axle wasn't OEM. And I don't think they were rebuilt... I could be wrong though. When we put it in, we pushed it in until it "popped" in. Do they go in any further?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What did you pay for the axle from Autozone? Est $100?...new from Honda is est. $200+. Buying a re-manufactured axle is hit or miss.

 

the most likely culprit is the oil seal right there where the axle fits into the tranny. It's like a $3 part or something

 

From Autozone it was like $60... maybe a little more... But if there's a seal where the axle goes in the tranny, that might be the problem. I just wasn't sure if there was anything else that needed to be replaced along with the shafts. I was just gonna chalk it up to a shoddy brand. Does anyone know if replacing a seal is needed when changing the shafts??

 

How many miles? The seal is cheap (compated to an axle) and easy to replace. Sure beats having to take it all apart again. I put aftermarket shafts in my 90 LX at about 180K and they both only lasted about 60K. I say use Honda.

 

It's got 132k... so let me get this straight... the seal that we're talking about is in the transmission? I have to look this up... and I'm hoping that I don't have to change the whole shaft. But if there's not a seal on that side... then it's the shafts being a "no name" brand...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeoWaterDragon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's got 132k... so let me get this straight... the seal that we're talking about is in the transmission? </TD></TR></TABLE>

yup.

if you do it while you've got the axle out it adds maybe 15 mins to the job.

 

alot of the honda dealers around me use axles from napa, i guess they are just as good

 

clean the trans off, and run the car for a while, make sure you know 100% where the leak is. Always look for leaks from the top down AFTER it has been cleaned really well.

 

i was quoted $120 for a shaft by Huey Honda in St Louis and $200 installed..lol where do you live?

 

call me crazy but if the shaft isn't snapping during a turn then why not simply replace the torn boot and clamps? any qualified shop with a knowledgeable as well as at a minimum a certified ASE master technician should be able to repair that boot for $50 to $75 U.S. depending on where you live, that way they can either recommended throwing in a new seal or at least have it fall on their shoulders when it starts to leak? or buy a boot kit and install the boot yourself?

 

a ase master tech will not repair the boot but rather replace the axle

 

then i guess you would be wrong, cause its done every day. example: if the service manager cant at the least sell the whole shaft to a customer with a blow boot, they then back up to at least getting a boot repair rather then letting a car roll off the rack without making a penny, and why do you suppose they sell those boot repair kits at napa or carquest? maybe they use them for pretty decoration on the shelfs? so is the service manager gonna recommend the whole shaft? you bet your **** he is, thats his job, make money, is a ASE certified master tech gonna recommend the whole shaft? you bet your **** he is cause its a whole lot easier to replace a whole assembly rather then repair one boot, so is it still possible to get a single outer boot replaced by a master tech? yes. now like most senior techs with more than 10 years under their belt they can remember when techs actually did tech work, like rebuilding alternators, or carbs, or for example half shafts, but then it isn't very cost effective to rebuild most things these days when its sometimes cheaper to replace them, which explains why a lot of newer techs are better described as parts hangers, cause thats all they know, a part goes bad, they replace the whole asembly rather than make a repair, not there fault really, just the way automotive repair shops are going towards. but lets say we work at a honda dealership and we're presented with a 2007 honda accord with less then 20 miles on the odometer, and the left outer boot was torn during shipping on a tractor trailer, now is the service manager gonna make the call on buying a whole new axle? or is he gonna get a boot repair kit and replace it? so as you we can split hairs till the cows come home and still be on this thread for months, or we can all agree that sometimes even real ASE master techs replace boots, from time to time...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by next_evolution &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then i guess you would be wrong, cause its done every day. example: if the service manager cant at the least sell the whole shaft to a customer with a blow boot, they then back up to at least getting a boot repair rather then letting a car roll off the rack without making a penny, and why do you suppose they sell those boot repair kits at napa or carquest? maybe they use them for pretty decoration on the shelfs? so is the service manager gonna recommend the whole shaft? you bet your **** he is, thats his job, make money, is a ASE certified master tech gonna recommend the whole shaft? you bet your **** he is cause its a whole lot easier to replace a whole assembly rather then repair one boot, so is it still possible to get a single outer boot replaced by a master tech? yes. now like most senior techs with more than 10 years under their belt they can remember when techs actually did tech work, like rebuilding alternators, or carbs, or for example half shafts, but then it isn't very cost effective to rebuild most things these days when its sometimes cheaper to replace them, which explains why a lot of newer techs are better described as parts hangers, cause thats all they know, a part goes bad, they replace the whole asembly rather than make a repair, not there fault really, just the way automotive repair shops are going towards. but lets say we work at a honda dealership and we're presented with a 2007 honda accord with less then 20 miles on the odometer, and the left outer boot was torn during shipping on a tractor trailer, now is the service manager gonna make the call on buying a whole new axle? or is he gonna get a boot repair kit and replace it? so as you we can split hairs till the cows come home and still be on this thread for months, or we can all agree that sometimes even real ASE master techs replace boots, from time to time... </TD></TR></TABLE>

The labor to replace the boot is the same as as R&R'ing the whole shaft itself. However just because its not clicking doesnt mean there isnt already damage to the cage. so you charge the customer to replace the boot and they return a month later complaining of a clicking noise and guesss what, you now have to repair the axel, at no cost to the shop or any labor for the tech. As for replacing parts instead of rebuilding them ,you're right that's also is not cost effective. The current labor rate is for simple R&R'ing of parts. If you were to factor in the charge of overhaul you'd be looking at about a $400 alternator repair job. So does that make todays technician inferior to those of the past ,Hardly. Performing diagnostic work such as drivability and no starts was a walk in the park on cars of the past compared to todays more complex vehicles...

 

word, i am a ase master tech have been for over 12 years, what i said in my last post is just that we will not do a boot it looks bad for us and the shop when it comes back in a month just like cb7-r stated, i not syaing that we cant do it but rather we wont

 

well lets break it down then shall we... "The labor to replace the boot is the same as as R&R'ing the whole shaft itself" correct! thank you for stating the obvious, the labor for just pulling the left axle varies from 1.0HRs to 1.5HRs(depending on your estimating system) now the labor on pulling the axle and replacing the boot at the same time varies from 1.2HRs to 1.8HRs (again depending on your labor estimating guide)

"However just because its not clicking doesnt mean there isnt already damage to the cage" well you could be correct, or not, any qualified tech is gonna make that call upon inspection, if the grease is flung everywhere and dried out and covered in dirt, sure its beyond repair, but if it looks like its just been torn, then its a safe chance that after replacing, cleaning and correctly greasing the cage that the axle wont be coming back anytime soon.

"so you charge the customer to replace the boot and they return a month later complaining of a clicking noise and guess what, you now have to repair the axel, at no cost to the shop or any labor for the tech" well if your any good at selling service then we will assume that you also have enough sense to cover your **** or as goodyear says"protect our good name" then you would have correctly informed the customer of their options, risk, and the potential costs of a future repair if the axle fails within 90 days(or whatever your parts/labor guarantee is) so you woundt be replacing an axle for free, nor demanding a tech to replace it a second time without any labor time, now if you work at a dealership, or a retail shop that expects their techs to work for free on something whether its a warranty job due to a part failure or a service managers mistake, then you need to get a big grip on how to treat your techs, sure i hold my techs accountable for their mistakes like leaving something loose or incorrectly assembling something, but never expect them to work for free on a warranty job when its a part failure, thats just stupid and any tech will tell you that.

"As for replacing parts instead of rebuilding them ,that also is not cost effective" i hope your agreeing with me because i said the same thing.

"The current labor rate is for simple R&R'ing of parts" then you need to open your eyes and get a tad more experience before assuming that your labor guide system is the ONLY system out there, there is more than one labor guide system that lists O/H times as well as R+R times : mitchell on demand, shop key, chilton laborguide, automotive expert, maxx traxx pro, G.B.M.S. you get the point.

"If you were to factor in the charge of overhaul you'd be looking at about a $400 alternator repair job" well lets factor it in shall we? depending on the alternator fault we will say that we need to replace the brushes.
parts:
alternator rebuild kit(sold and still used by alternator repair shops to this day) $28.95(wholesale) sold at $43.99
shop supplies(razor blades, solder, cast finish, rags, grease, etc...)$3.99

for a total of $47.98 in parts

labor:
R+R alternator and O/H at 4.3 HRs(lets just assume that the average labor rate is $60.00 for now) $258.00
(and we will even throw in a charging system test at 19.95 since autozone does it for free with superior all knowing master video certified counter techs) $19.95

which brings us to 277.95 in labor

parts: $ 47.98
labor: $ 277.95
_____________
sub $325.93
tax $ 22.82
total $348.75

so our total repair is $348.75 otd for our alternator repair job

now thats doing a O/H at only $60.00 flat rate, if we did it at 75- 105 like most retail repair shops or dealerships we would be even higher.

now lets just replace the alternator this time, and we will be going new first, reman second

parts: new alternator assembly = $424.99
labor: R+R 2.9 at 75.00 = $217.50

estimated at $642.49 for a dealership to install a new alternator

parts: reman alternator assembly = $105.00 (at autozone, but lets face it, what dealership or retail repair shop lets customers buy there own parts)
labor: R+R 2.9 at 75.00 = 217.50

estimated at $322.50 for a dealership to install a reman alternator

but good luck finding a dealership or retail shop to install your parts and still give you a warranty, aint gonna happen, they would lose money on the part and only make a lil off the labor, now that isn't very cost effective is it, but hey like i said before, we can split this in so many ways till the cows come home.... so keep your day job and leave the bridge selling to the pros.

peace

 

Obviously at the ripe old age of 27 you would have much more expierence than me but let me try to put my post into a diffrent perspective for you anyway..
First I never said my labor guide is the only one nor that it didn't have labor rates for O/H. What i said is that shops and dealers do not charge for O/H. They charge for R&R'ing. That is the current state of things in the auto repair buisness. i f your backwater shop does overhauls then great, but its not the norm these days. Why is a tech going to waste time tearing down and axel when a rebuilt one is readly avaiable??? Eye balling the bearing cage is not going to tell you if its good or not ,measurements and clearances need to be checked plus the trueness of the shaft.Does your shop have the ability to check this??? There is also greater chance for a mistake upon reassembly. (It happens no matter how seasoned you are).

Second I'm in California the labor rates are between $85-$150 an hr. customer pays $150 for a reman alternator (2 year warranty at most chain stores) Alternator's at best pay an hour but most pay about .5-.8 and your looking at about 200 to 250 for the job.

Funny thing is I said that overhauling is not cost effective and you said that you agreed with that then you proceeded to explain how rebuilding an alternator would be better than or the same as just replacing one. Can you say contradiction???

 

word

 

well yes at the ripe old age of 27 i do have more experience then you, and i must be doing something right since i own my own repair shop. so maybe me and my backwater shop with our O/H charging are going about it all wrong, maybe i should give up my day job and go be a general service tech at a dealership, or better yet a lube technician! lord knows that those lube techs are down right experts at throwing on new parts, like oil filters. but let me try to put my post in a different perspective for ya since you didn't get it the first time... so just in case you get confused I'll put your comments in quotations.

"What i said is that shops and dealers do not charge for O/H. They charge for R&R'ing." (well your wrong, again. YES they charge for R+R ing but if there a profitable shop like mine they will also charge for O/H. if you have ever been in a service manager/writer position, you would know that your job is not only to inform customers of the needed repairs but to also make money for your employer, if you don't sell, you don't stay very long, so with that said when your faced with a customer who needs a new half shaft you look at every option for the repair, so YES you want to sell a new half shaft, but if the customer says no i cant afford that you should then be able to recommend a boot replacement as long as the tech gives you the OK. if your dealership isn't doing that and its telling customers "fix it my way or hit the highway" then it might explain why 95% of new car owners stop going to dealerships for service once the warranty runs out, well that and dealers charge way too much for labor most of the time. so if your any good at selling service then you'll give that customer the option to repair the boot and still try to save the sale rather then let a customer roll out of the shop without making a dime. cause the customer is gonna go somewhere else to get there car fixed regardless of what you say.)

"That is the current state of things in the auto repair buisness. so if your backwater shop does overhauls then great, but its not the norm these days." (the current state of things in the auto repair business its about making money, whether your parts hanging or O/H. so while your still working for the dealership me and my backwater shop will keep making money on O/Hs. as far as the "NORM" these days its about trying to sell the customer the highest repair job possible)

"Why is a tech going to waste time tearing down and axle when a rebuilt one is readily available??? ( well lets ask a tech this instead - would a tech rather get paid for tearing down an axle and repairing a boot at 1.8 flat rate labor HRs? OR just get paid 1.0 flat rate labor HRs for installing a reman axle? so are you telling me that your techs hate making money? cause every tech i know who is paid flat rate would rather get paid more labor than stand around waiting for new parts to arrive)

"Eye balling the bearing cage is not going to tell you if its good or not ,measurements and clearances need to be checked plus the trueness of the shaft" ( eyeballing the cage isn't going to tell you if its good or not sure, but if your techs are smart like mine then they are going to test drive the vehicle before a repair is performed, thus helping them determine if a boot repair is possible, if its not snapping and its rebuilt correctly then that just might be an option that the customer just might take if there a lil short on cash. and YES my shop does have the ability to check tolerances, lets hope your does)

"There is also greater chance for a mistake upon reassembly. It happens no matter how seasoned you are" (sure, and i might win the lottery too, but if your a seasoned tech then its highly unlikely that you will make a mistake, but hey no ones perfect)

"Second I'm in California the labor rates are between $85-$150 an hr. customer pays $150 for a reman alternator (2 year warranty at most chain stores) Alternator's at best pay an hour but most pay about .5-.8 and your looking at about 200 to 250 for the job " ( so are you saying that California dealerships allow customers to buy there own parts? highly unlikely. and we wernt talking about labor HRs for most cars, we were talking about a 97 honda accord, so if you had even the slightest clue about how labor guides work then you would know that its a "GUIDLINE" based upon worst case and best case, fast tech, slow tech, the average time to perform the job in question. and if your dealership is doing alternator R+R jobs with remans at $250 then you must work at a yugo dealership, and you even stiffed the tech for the diag time)

"Funny thing is I said that overhauling is not cost effective and you said that you agreed with that then you proceeded to explain how rebuilding an alternator would be better than or the same as just replacing one. Can you say contradiction???"
( what i said was this - but then it isn't very cost effective to rebuild most things these days when its sometimes cheaper to replace them - yes sometimes its cheaper to replace rather then rebuild, and vice versa, but if your going to change your posts after the fact to make yours look better after i post then why are you even here? cause you'll still see where i said keep your day job and leave the bridge selling to the pros, and this is the post yopu changed after i replied

"The labor to replace the boot is the same as as R&R'ing the whole shaft itself. However just because its not clicking doesnt mean there isnt already damage to the cage. so you charge the customer to replace the boot and they return a month later complaining of a clicking noise and guesss what, you now have to repair the axel, at no cost to the shop or any labor for the tech. As for replacing parts instead of rebuilding them ,you're right that's also is not cost effective. The current labor rate is for simple R&R'ing of parts. If you were to factor in the charge of overhaul you'd be looking at about a $400 alternator repair job. *** here is where you changed your post***(So does that make todays technician inferior to those of the past ,Hardly. Performing diagnostic work such as drivability and no starts was a walk in the park on cars of the past compared to todays more complex vehicles...*** end of changed post***

*** what you removed in order to make you look better after the fact &gt;&gt;&gt; so if you find a customer willing to pay that price then i have a bridge to sell them too... &lt;&lt;&lt;

and that is why i said leave the bridge selling to the pros because you didnt want people to see that you dont have a clue as to selling service let alone working on cars anywhere... except maybe in your moms garage with your daddys tools.

 

Just my .02$ worth. I HATE reman axles. After 30 years of turning wrenches, I could tell you some @#$%^& stories. Last year when I rebuilt my 94's suspension, I found a posting (recommendation) for a company called RAXLES.COM.

They COST MORE, but they use never cut/ground shafts and install all NEW bearings (check the site). I bought a set, and they came with VERY HD boots/bands, and looked very, very good. I installed them, and so far they run truer and quieter than ANY reman I have ever installed.

Also, no BS core-charge. You pay for the axles, and get 30 days to return the old ones, and they never charge the core charge unless you fail to send the cores in. A very, very well run business.

I have been buying AM parts for 30 years, and this company seems very, very good. No BS $75 axles, though. I paid about $120/each. But, the shafts were virgin (never ground, I can tell), the boots/bands were very HD, and unlike ANY rebuild I ever found they use NEW bearings. I KNOW the new/better parts make up most of the extra $$$! You get what you pay for- Wrenchy

 

hay next evo i can tell you as a tech i can make way more money in a day at flat rate doing axles allday long then i ever would doing a lube repack and reboot and band

boot at 1.8 hrs@ 75 an hour =120-130 only taking me 40 min*10 in a day=$1200.00
axle swap@1.0hrs@75 a hour only taking me 15min x 23 a day =2k+

you said lets ask a tech so this is my reply to your question

 

you make $75 an hour? Man, I should move to your shop.

When I worked at a dealership as a 2nd year apprentice, I was paid flat rate. I made 23% of the labour rate. $89.99 x .23 = 20.70. This was rounded up to $21 an hour. I believe Next_Evo was talking about what makes more money for the tech, not the shop. I think that you need to work on your logic skills a lil bit. Unless you work at a shop that ONLY does axels, its not a valid point to say that I you can make $2k+ doing axels all day, it will never happen.

If you want to look at it in that logic, oil changes pay .5, so that means I get $10.50 to do an oil change (which I rarely do anymore) so, lets think about that. it takes me 8 mins to do a proper oil change (which means letting ALL the oil drain, not trying to brake land speed records and shoving the plug back in with 2L left in the pan.) So, we can round that out to 10mins for calculations sake. that means that I can do 6 oil changes in a hour. 6x10.5=$63. So I now went from making 21 to $63 an hour, exactly 3x what I normally make. I work 10 hours a day, sometimes 11, but a normal day is 10, which means that I would be making $630 a day just on oil changes.

With that said, lube techs should be rich right? NO, they are not, because thats not how the way the world works. you will never have that in a shop/dealer. Thats why all the jube jockeys get paid by the hour, because its cheaper for the shop.]

If you want to make a comparison, make one that is practical.

/Rant

 

Any body else here do O/H on parts in there shop/dealership???Maybe I'm wrong....my moms garage is a lonely place