say 180whp in each motor same car, same driver and same conditions

would the b18c1 still be faster?

I ended up selling my LSvtec setup and just buying a b16a swap..

I plan on making 180-190whp with the b16a and then swapping the shortblock but not until I have teh b16a maxed out basically though


ctr pistons
skunk2 im port matched to a 65mm TB (professional products)
hondata IM gasket
JDM ITR header
2.5 back w/ resonator and magnaflow muffler
skunk2 pro1's with valvetrain of course
Cam gears
AEM CAI (gona try to see if the 3" ITR one fits) if I cant find one that I think flows well enough then its whale *****
Tuning.

a stock 1st gen bottom end can handle 9200rpms right?

think this motor would outrun a b18c1? with the same whp? I think probably not in the 1st 2 gears but after that of course..

opinions?

 

peak whp doesnt mean ****, stop comparing things that way. Get the biggest motor you can.

 

torque>Hp

 

neither of those answered my question..


I dont feel like spending an extra thousand dollars for 15lbs of torque and a transmission that isnt near as short.

I'm honestly trying to find a b17 swap.. cant find it though

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC2841 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">neither of those answered my question..

</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok your all motor b16 will make no where near the torque a b20/b18 will.
its simple.

 

really? I knew that.. thats not what I asked.

forget it..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC2841 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">really? I knew that.. thats not what I asked.

forget it..</TD></TR></TABLE>

The b18c will be faster.Everyone was telling you why.

 

hes too stupid to hear the truth. its apparent that no matter what you say he thinks his pansy *** B16 is the end all be all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MR.johnson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">torque&gt;Hp</TD></TR></TABLE>

uh huh.

Gearing &gt; torque

You guys should stop watching NASCAR. Fox has Formula 1 on June 10th. Those poor F1 cars only make a little more than 200ft/lbs of torque. But they do manage 900 hp.

Pirate

 

Pirate you are correct, but I think it is easier to get a bigger engine with more torque that it is to change gearing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

uh huh.

Gearing &gt; torque

You guys should stop watching NASCAR. Fox has Formula 1 on June 10th. Those poor F1 cars only make a little more than 200ft/lbs of torque. But they do manage 900 hp.

Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

open a book and read about torque and horse power for f1 and nascar.
here i will do it for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines
http://www.hendrickmotorsports...0.asp

then determine what makes horse power.

"Directly proportional" means there may be a multiplyer involved, so let's find it using our example numbers, remembering that 1 revolution per second is 60 RPM:

torque * RPM * constant = hp

87.5 lbf-ft * 60 rev/min * X = 1 hp

X = 1 / (60 * 87.5) = 1/5250

torque * RPM * 1/5250 = hp

hp = (torque * RPM) / 5250

Engines don’t make horsepower, they convert fuel into torque.

horse power is a factor of RPM, a B-series with full race components will not rev to 20,000 rpm like f1 cars do. and i dont think that would make a fun street car if you had to rev to 20,000 to move the car.

sorry for trying to help.

Modified by MR.johnson at 7:07 AM 5/24/2007


Modified by MR.johnson at 7:09 AM 5/24/2007

 

lol. I am well aware of that formula and I also know that no B-series engines rev to 20,000 rpm. You're too sensitive. You posted a lame little generalization and so I did too. Then you blew up for no reason.

Mr, OP b16 can keep up with a someone with .2 liters more displacement by lowering his gearing. That was my point. Yes B16's have lower torque. Power is power for a given machine. Match gearing and torque does not matter.

Here's an example of what I mean:

Red is a stage 2 LSJ supercharged Ecotec engine
Blue is my stock K20.

The plot is power/torque versus vehicle speed for each vehicle.



Assuming the cars are the same weight the Ecotec has the holeshot but then the K20 hits VTEC and stays right with the ecotec that has 40ft/lbs more torque. Gee how does the 6500 RPM rev limit ecotec with 40 ft/lbs more torque all the way across the curve not manage to pull away from the lowly gutless K20 with an 8500 redline? Oh that's right! The K20 has a 6-speed gearbox and the Ecotec only has a 5-speed. Thus gearing is more important than torque.

Again power is power, match gearing and your 180 hp 1.6 liter will hang with 180 whp 1.8 liter cars just fine. The only difference is that the OP'll run out of gear at 120+ MPH

So sit back and relax a little. It's just the internet. sheesh.

PIrate

 

the OP never asked about gearing.

the same car with the same tranny, the 1.8/2.0 WILL beat the 1.6.

im not arguing about gearing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MR.johnson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the OP never asked about gearing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the OP never asked about torque either.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MR.johnson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im not arguing about gearing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I noticed.

Pirate

 

Put it this way, even if both engines made the same HP, the b18c1 would still win the race because it would make MORE tq...hands down the b18c1 is a better motor than a b16!!

 

B18C5 w/ J1 or S1 cable tranny&gt;Both b16 and b18c1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">peak whp doesnt mean ****, stop comparing things that way. Get the biggest motor you can. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Simple way to put it, gearing torque powerband etc all factor in.

But in the case of a b18c1 vs a b16a. They are so close and or equal the bigger is better is just that simple

As i'm trying to keep miles down on both my cars i've been dailying my project it's got a warmed up 350 and a 4:30 gear out back talk about having all 3 things size torque and gear

 

its all about the powerband and torque not peak numbers. Which one do you think would win with proper gearing?

 

what about the torq ? forgot about htat buddy !

 

If the gearing were the same (ie... both cars had a b16 tranny)... the b18 would win... not just cuz of 'torque'... but more because of the area under the curve. The amount of torque it makes from down low....all the way to the torque peak.

Even if the b16 is making 120ft lbs of torque... it needs to rev up much higher than the b18 to get to that 120 ft lbs... whereas the b18 will be on boil sooner due to the displacement....making likely the same torque or more... MUCH sooner....

There... no dyno sheet needed...

 

just ask this guy (the OP) how he wants to drive his car. does he want to daily drive it then yes go with the b18, better low end torque makes driving a lot easier on the streets more power down low. but if he wants to be in vtec everywhere he goes then go with the b16 and rev happy. its all base on how you want to drive your car everyday, preference. as for me if i had a choice of a 180hp b18 or b16 i'll take the b18 anyday. just my 2 cents.

 

i'll make it real easy a 95 gsr is faster than a 95 del sol b16 and a 99 gsr is faster than a 99 civic si so you do the math

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deftonerider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'll make it real easy a 95 gsr is faster than a 95 del sol b16 and a 99 gsr is faster than a 99 civic si so you do the math</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

there is no replacement for displasement. 1.8 is bigger then 1.6 thus making more power and torque.

 

plus the same thing he's trying to put on the b16 if he'd put them on the b18 he'll make more power everywhere across the board...plus higher peak numbers too...