Under normal use, excluding drag, autoX, track, etc.

Just a glance at the last 7 years of performance cars, and in one way or the other most seem to have issues, wether they were related to engine management, quality control, manufacturer defect or oversight, etc.

Here are the cars/issues I recall:

'02-'04 SE-R spec V:

1. cylinder wall scaring due to premature failiure of pre cat
2. heavy oil consumption (usually caused by #1)

'03 Mazdaspeed Protege:

1. quirky, pig rich engine management that robbed power and hindered drivability (TSB flash corrected it for the most part)
2. Rear suspension clunk due to premature rear sway bar bushing failiure
3. LSD problems on cars driven in snowy climates
4. stereo would fry factory installed Kenwood amp once every three to six months

'07 Mazdaspeed 3:

1. rear motor mount failiure (Mazda dealers are playing deaf dumb and blind on this one) even though corporate admits that 01/07 production and newer cars have had the issue corrected. (still no TSB)

'04-'05 Pontiac GTO:

1. strut rub on inner front tires causing tire blowouts (not exactly a defect you want on a 400hp, 160 mph car) caused by strut mount bushings that fail and throw off the alignment. Google "gto strut rub"

'04 Subaru STI:

1. detonation issues/engine management geared to higher octane fuel.
2. rear diff failiure on early examples

'03-'04 Mitsu EVO 8:

1. clutches
2. transfer cases
3. front diffs

'01-'02 E46 M3:

1. oil pressure problems
2. bearing problems
3. catastrophic engine failuires caused by the above

'06 Civic SI:

1. rev hang/dbw
2. creaks and rattles

'00 and up GTI MKIV:

1. coil packs
2. window actuators
3. misc electrical gremlins

I owned 3 ITR's in a 6 years span, and never once had to go in for anything (blew 1 clutch and bent valves on a missed shift, totally my fault) but the cars seemed to be achilees heel free as far as I remember.

 

That was interesting, just shows the quality of Honda products. I cant wait to get myself a Type R. Wasnt the evo problems listed driver related? (5000 rpm clutch drops from a dig)

 

I've always given you **** for not respecting the car enough, since you always seem to want to bring up other cars that will spank the ITR and burst the ignorant bubbles of their owners.

However, you yourself have just outlined one of the things that makes the ITR so good. The only major downside to owning it - theft - has nothing to do with the car itself.

I've considered trading 'up' many times, but any car that's exciting enough for me invariably has a major downside, usually the 'potential reliability nightmare' variety.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
'00 and up GTI MKIV:

1. coil packs
2. window actuators
3. misc electrical gremlins

</TD></TR></TABLE>

this one made me laugh since Ive seen it first hand, being that 2 of my best friends are VW ****** and my sister drives a 00 2L golf. lets not forget MAF problems but maybe we can just classify that under misc gremlins.

As far as the ITR goes, Ive only owned one and it was far from perfect when I got it, so I cant comment personally on its issues (or lack thereof). ive never really had any problems with it that I can remember that werent caused by me or the previous owner.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've always given you **** for not respecting the car enough, since you always seem to want to bring up other cars that will spank the ITR and burst the ignorant bubbles of their owners.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's just me playing devils advocate.

But time has proven that the ITR is reliable as a plain 'ol vanilla 4cyl Accord.

And like you mentioned, theft is probably it's biggest "problem".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
'03-'04 Mitsu EVO 8:

1. clutches
2. transfer cases
3. front diffs</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never heard of any clutch related problems...a buddy of mine constantly beats up his car such as; launching from digs, double clutch, and heel & toe on a daily basis.

As far as owning an ITR, I have owned 2 and can't complain...they are literally perfected out of the box

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And like you mentioned, theft is probably it's biggest "problem".</TD></TR></TABLE>

Theft is the ONLY problem.

I'm often accused of putting the ITR up on a pedestal, but what else is there for the same $$ or even close?

An ITR will equal many cars in overall performance (lap times) and will exceed just about anything short of an Elise or Ferrari in the way it engages and excites its driver.

I swapped cars with an old guy once (he drove an 996 GT2) and he was shocked at how well-sorted the ITR was. He fell in love with it before he even took it out of first gear. His amazement only grew as the speeds picked up.

There are <u>very</u> few cars I'd rather drive. And there's almost no car I'd rather have for mixed street and track duty.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


There are <u>very</u> few cars I'd rather drive. And there's almost no car I'd rather have for mixed street and track duty.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ITR's simplicity has a lot to do with it's pure beauty, it's truly a drivers car.

The only car that gives me more enjoyment than an ITR is an E60 M5, it reminds me of an R in a weird way too.

Absolute euphoric giddyness is what I feel in that car, and I hate iDrive with a passion. But the car is awesome enough to overlook that. Once you sort out the SMG and get to know the car, you fall deeply in love with what is seemingly endless fire in it's belly which you are the master of. It's a point and squirt machete.

When I climb out of my brothers '06 M5 and back into my E55, my car feels like a crown victoria to me.

 

that's why Honda wins again

 

I've had my Type-R for a year, put 21,000 miles in that year (I love to drive it, what can I say), the only problems I've had, was TPS recently, and that's IT... I drove my Audi for 2,000 miles, and I had already spent $1,500 to keep her running, and more problems kept getting thrown at me.

I love my Honduhs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Damon Reeves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have never heard of any clutch related problems...a buddy of mine constantly beats up his car such as; launching from digs,</TD></TR></TABLE>


The EVO's weak link in the tranny IS the clutch itself. But I bet that's Mitsu's way of saving replacing entire trannies more often than they already want to. Just look at the pill in the clutch reservoir that slows clutch engagement from hard launches.

The 6 spd MR's supposedly also have a weak 4th gear, due to limited space in the tranny and refitting the 6 spd with beefier 1 to 3rd gears, some things had to be made smaller, the 4th through 6th supposedly aren't as strong as 1st through 3rd. But from what I've seen the folks blowing their 4th gears up are people with otherwise modded higher HP EVO's that are constantly abusing their cars.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Damon Reeves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">double clutch, and heel & toe on a daily basis.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neither of which will damage the transmission when performed properly. double clutching is absolutely not neccessary though, especially since the EVO has triple synchros on the 1st three gears.

I perform Heel-Toe with every standard car I drive. It will actually preserve a cars transmission.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
When I climb out of my brothers '06 M5 and back into my E55, my car feels like a crown victoria to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what happens when you get used to driving a detuned Formula 1 engine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


The 6 spd MR's supposedly also have a weak 4th gear, due to limited space in the tranny and refitting the 6 spd with beefier 1 to 3rd gears, some things had to be made smaller, the 4th through 6th supposedly aren't as strong as 1st through 3rd. But from what I've seen the folks blowing their 4th gears up are people with otherwise modded higher HP EVO's that are constantly abusing their cars.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

A co worker of mine that lives in Rockland county had a high whp AMS built '05 MR that was tuned and well sorted (hardware) and the car was really a garage queen, never drag raced, autoX'ed once when stock. Basically a very expensive toy. And he broke 4th gear twice. 4th was actually broken when he sold it recently. I guess the Murcielago like highway bursts were enough to toast 4th.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's what happens when you get used to driving a detuned Formula 1 engine </TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been lucky enough to drive some cool new cars, and the M5 is the one that just gets my goat.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A co worker of mine that lives in Rockland county had a high whp AMS built '05 MR that was tuned and well sorted (hardware) and the car was really a garage queen, never drag raced, autoX'ed once when stock. Basically a very expensive toy. And he broke 4th gear twice. 4th was actually broken when he sold it recently. I guess the Murcielago like highway bursts were enough to toast 4th.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I've seen the gamut of EVO issues both real and hypothetical posted up but this 4th gear thing seems to be something to really watch out for.

Funny thing though, when at highway speeds, going from 6th to 5th is all that's really needed for "Murcielago like highway bursts". 4th is really a twisty back road thing and is apparant with the modded EVO drivers who are doing regular HPDE's and Time Trials. As I understand it the transmission heats up so much under load and going up and down the gears constantly that 4th just shatters. But again were talking modded higher than stock or close to stock EVO's in more demanding atmosphere.

Although uncommon there have been transmission issues with the ITR. We've seen several replaced or rebuilt under warranty and the one's I'm thinking of weren't 500+ whp cars.


Modified by 1GreyTeg at 3:31 PM 5/19/2007

 

im not 100%sureon this but i heard 350z had some kind of extreme tire wear problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ednyboo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im not 100%sureon this but i heard 350z had some kind of extreme tire wear problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep I've heard that as well. Front tire wear issues on the first year or 2 of their run. But AFAIK the issue was solved. As a matter of fact the wear issue was documented in Road and Track magazines long term test of their 350Z.

 

speaking as a former nissan service rep. the reason for that was improper camber/caster settings from the factory..the car would sound like the wheel bearings were gonna explode at low speeds and while braking..Nissan's official TSB called for readjusting the front camber/caster/toe and fitting new tires...just some useless info i'd thought i share but Honda/acura FTW!!!!!!!!!...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That's what happens when you get used to driving a detuned Formula 1 engine
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just wanted to clarify what I meant by that statement. The M5 makes some passionate noises and growls, like the ITR. To me the E60 M5 carries on the genuine spirit of the E30 M3, but an on steroids mutation of that spirit.

And although the E55 has much more torque and a blower. It still feels more like a very solid, heavy luxury sedan with lots of torque and power. It doesn't feel like a superhero costume, like the hard-wired-to-your-brain M5 does.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah I've seen the gamut of EVO issues both real and hypothetical posted up but this 4th gear thing seems to be something to really watch out for.

Funny thing though, when at highway speeds, going from 6th to 5th is all that's really needed for "Murcielago like highway bursts". 4th is really a twisty back road thing and is apparant with the modded EVO drivers who are doing regular HPDE's and Time Trials. As I understand it the transmission heats up so much under load and going up and down the gears constantly that 4th just shatters. But again were talking modded higher than stock or close to stock EVO's in more demanding atmosphere.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was being facetious about the lambo thing, because his car was over 600whp and mind numbingly fast. It really was a sick car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Although uncommon there have been transmission issues with the ITR. We've seen several replaced or rebuilt under warranty and the one's I'm thinking of weren't 500+ whp cars.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You just reminded me of something I totally forgot about. I had the 3rd gear synchro replaced under warranty on my '98 R at about 20K miles. I also remember some gear whine issues on stock or near stock R's back around 2000-01.

 

What about high oil consumption and weak 2nd,3rd gear syncro's

they seem to be common problem amoungst itrs, not really badd enough to be recall but common enough where its more of a 50% chance an itr will have one or the other

 

my itr has some rattles here and there, probably from the harsh ride. the stiffer the car, probably more likely to shake loose some interior pieces. but some people do have the high oil consumption. perhaps the bugs were worked out in the 95 and 96 jdm itr. didn't we basically get a car that was already developed?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Steady R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about high oil consumption and weak 2nd,3rd gear syncro's

they seem to be common problem amoungst itrs, not really badd enough to be recall but common enough where its more of a 50% chance an itr will have one or the other</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's really a subject that has always been up for debate (the oil thing), the synchro thing I'll agree with you on.

My personal experience with Vtec B series motors has been of little to no oil consumption, but then again I didn't track my cars and ran strictly organic Honda oil in them. I found the K20Z1 in my RSX to eat way more oil than my R's ever did.

On track it seems some guys didn't have the excessive consumption issue and some did. The whole synth vs. org oil debate in the high revving ITR has always had a line drawn in the sand.

I subscribe to the idea that if synth was good for the car, the manufacturer would at least manufacture a synthetic oil for the car. They never did and they won't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Steady R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about high oil consumption and weak 2nd,3rd gear syncro's

they seem to be common problem amoungst itrs, not really badd enough to be recall but common enough where its more of a 50% chance an itr will have one or the other</TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said- particularly about oil consumption. My car was babied and maintained probably better than any ITR when I picked it up at 9600 miles, and it had oil consumption issues even then. I finally had my head rebuilt at about 60,000 miles when it was going through a quart of oil every 200 miles.

I too have noticed the 2nd-3rd grind getting worse on quick shifts, but assumed that was my fault. I used to only notice it when I was at the track (road course) but now it grinds on daily driving if I'm shifting fast in VTEC from 2nd to 3rd.

Other than that I agree with what the OP comments -- but I have a hard time comparing to a Ferrari or Lotus, I mean, come on. I also have considered "upgrading" for a long time but can never find something in my budget that I think will give me the same enjoyment. All these reasons are why I've admitted to myself that I probably will never be able to sell it. So hopefully within the year mine becomes the weekend-only car and then slowly an H2/ITR race car to replace my H4 Civic. Someday I want to be like this older guy I met at the track last year who was racing an old 70's 'vette. I asked him how long he'd had the car and he said "bought it when I was 19" or something like that. Just thought that was really cool. Anyway, end early Sunday morning rant...

 

The original CRX Si did pretty well.

 

the only realy problem with the itr is the theft issue, but i guess you cant really blame that one on honda(or can you )
the burning oil and tranny syncro's are more regular wear on the r motors that are DRIVEN