yo..
i just picked up a 98 prelude. im gettin it tuned on hondata S300..very soon..
does anyone else have a stock h22 set up tuned?im lookin for mostly more low end power..any input on how the hondata will change the powerband?thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reallycooleg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo..
i just picked up a 98 prelude. im gettin it tuned on hondata S300..very soon..
does anyone else have a stock h22 set up tuned?im lookin for mostly more low end power..any input on how the hondata will change the powerband?thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO S300 is over kill for a stock h22 setup but the powerband and power made is going to depend on the tuner and the mods of the car. What exactly are you trying to figure out here?

 

well
actually im getn the s300 cause im plannin on building the motor in the future and what the tuning advantages on the s300. i was just lookin for people that have had their preludes tuned...and how they liked it...

 

you should probs build the motor THEN tune

 

I am running an S300 right now and I like it alot.....
Most Def overkill for a stock H22 though.

When the time is right I have a dope H22 base map! Well, base for 400cc's and 8500rpm powerband!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by reallycooleg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo..
i just picked up a 98 prelude. im gettin it tuned on hondata S300..very soon..
does anyone else have a stock h22 set up tuned?im lookin for mostly more low end power..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hahahaha LOW END from a Honda! Not without MONEY and MODS!!! I'm sure the numbers are out there, but at this point I have to suggest another route. I had alot more fun with $1000 in mods and a VAFC than JUST a Hondata S300 could have ever provided.
Yes, $1000=S300+ECU+OBD2-OBD1 harness
For ~$1k I would look into a decent header/exhaust/intake/vafc & and hour on the Dyno.
Unless you want to run a Hack Program like Crome or Uberdata......Im still a fan of the Good Ole VAFC.

 

Ooo, do please tell why crome is a hack program over hondata?

Is it the fact that you can get everything you need to tune your own car for the same price as a S300?

I love when people spew out **** like this and have no reference to back it up.


- Reallycooleg:

You cannot use your factory ecu, if you want to tune your car with Hondata or a similar program like Crome you will need a OBD1 P72, P28 or P30 with IAB mod.

Q: What you ask is a IAB mod?
A: This allows the ecu to control the secondary runners in your intake manifold

Q: Why a P72 or P30?
A: The P72 is similar to your factory ECU, but not exactly the same. The P72 can control the IAB's, HOWEVER you will need to rewire them for (+) trigger. The P72 and P30 have a knock sensor, if you want to continue using it.

Q: Which one should I choose?
A: Depends on how much you want to spend. P30's are pretty rare now, P72's are around and P28's are dime a dozen. Remember to ask LOTS of questions from whoever is doing your ecu conversion. There are a couple of people who can do the IAB mod in the P28 with no problems down the road. I've seen and fixed many who cannot.

You also need a OBD2a to OBD1 conversion harness - Ask around, there are a TON of people here selling them.

Let's review your needs!

1) ECU ** NOTE ** Bone stock, not socketed or programmed!

OBD1 P72 - About $200 - Benefits: Has IAB control and Knock sensor

OBD1 P30 - About $250 (if you can find one) - Benefits: Has Knock sensor, can be converted with IAB mod

OBD1 P28 - About $125 - Benefits: CHEAP! Can be converted with IAB mod

2) Engine management system:

Hondata S300 - $595 - Benefits: Many, see hondata.com

CromePro - $149 - Benefits: Pretty much all the same features of S300 for 1/4 the price.

Add ons with the extra $450 you just saved:

-USB datalogging cable - $30
-Moates Ostrich Eprom Emulator - $175
-Innovate LC1 Wideband - $200
-Moates Burn1 - $85

So for slightly more than a S300, you now have the ability to tune your own engine anytime you want. No paying for dyno time, no reason to be reliant on someone else to do the job.

The downside? You have to learn how to tune. But don't fret! There is a whole community out there ready to help you do it.

GO FOR IT!

 

The s300 can be tuned by anyone with out the need for a OStrich or eeprom programmer. Check your facts. You can tune an s300 without a dyno, but anyone knowledgable about tuning vehicles will tell you that the only way to do it right is on a dyno and that applies to any software you use, Hondata or Crome.

The s300 also will alow you to use a non-vtec ecu to control vtec, you can also use the nitrous/aux outputs to control the IAB without having to add components to the ecu.

With the s300 you will have the following to connect and deal with
1. ECU plugged into harnes
2. USB cable connected from ECU to Laptop

With Crome you will need the following to even be close to tuning simalarly
1. ECU plugged into harness
2. Ostrich plugged into USB cable from laptop
3. Ribbon cable from Ostrich to ECU
4. USB cable from Burn1 to laptop (to burn chips when done tuning)
5. Risk of damaging chips when pulling them out and handling them.
6. ECU must also be left open while doing any and all tuning
7. Cable from ecu to laptop for datalogging

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spunkster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The s300 also will alow you to use a non-vtec ecu to control vtec, you can also use the nitrous/aux outputs to control the IAB without having to add components to the ecu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is incorrect. You cannot run VTEC on a non-VTEC ecu without adding components to the ecu.

You may be able to control the IAB through outputs, but you will need to add wiring. There is no "Nitrous" output of a OEM ECU.

Oh, and if you cant plug in a parallel cable, maybe you shouldn't buy a Honda. Maybe a better choice would be a Kia or Ford.

I'll go with the "HACK" program "Crome" over Hondata anyday.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ag-Eng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ooo, do please tell why crome is a hack program over hondata?

Is it the fact that you can get everything you need to tune your own car for the same price as a S300?

I love when people spew out **** like this and have no reference to back it up.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Crome has many unresolved issues related to high-rpm timing and the like.
Engines are expensive, using something that doesn't work right does not pay off.

Neptune RTP and Hondata S300 are both mature products that don't include untested and unsafe features.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ag-Eng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is incorrect. You cannot run VTEC on a non-VTEC ecu without adding components to the ecu.

You may be able to control the IAB through outputs, but you will need to add wiring. There is no "Nitrous" output of a OEM ECU.

Oh, and if you cant plug in a parallel cable, maybe you shouldn't buy a Honda. Maybe a better choice would be a Kia or Ford.

I'll go with the "HACK" program "Crome" over Hondata anyday. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, Neptune RTP and S300 have the ability to repurpose existing outputs on the ECU. These extra outputs can be used to control VTEC on a non-vtec ECU or control a nitrous solenoid or whatever else you want. Neptune RTP even has the option to switch to a completely separate set of low and high cam fuel and timing maps based on various triggers and output activations. That way you can have very fine control of a nitrous system, and even make a "safe" part-throttle nitrous tune if you're feeling dangerous.

Ag-Eng it's fairly clear that you haven't done much research or understand what's available for tuning solutions outside of crome.

 

i laugh at any "tuner" that says chrome is the ****..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ag-Eng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The P72 can control the IAB's, HOWEVER you will need to rewire them for (+) trigger. The P72 and P30 have a knock sensor, if you want to continue using it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ag-Eng, reading your post more carefully, I've noticed you've given lots of bad information.

There are no changes needed to have a OBD1 P72 Control IAB on a 4th or 5th gen Prelude. It works as is, only Integras have to worry about a different triggering method.

You also cannot keep a P72 or P30's knock sensing ability when running a H22. What you'll find is that the ECU will continually find huge amounts of false knock around VTEC crossover and cause nothing but horrible performance.

 

Hmm...

Which ecu? I see something here that says nothing about H22's firing the knock sensor constantanly (Don't care for knock myself, useless hardware)

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=567799


And could you show me where the 97-01 IAB trigger is the same as the 92-96? I don't have a prelude, but I have been told otherwise.


As for neptune, I'm impressed so far with what I have seen and read.

 

Crome Pro is good for the price and capabilities,comparing it to s300 isnt fair,its like comparing the s300 to a fully probramable ems,cost wise also.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ag-Eng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm...

Which ecu? I see something here that says nothing about H22's firing the knock sensor constantanly (Don't care for knock myself, useless hardware)

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=567799
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't care what that thread says, I'm not going to read it. The reality is that the knock board in a p30 or p72 is set to read specific frequencies to discover knock. The frequency that an engine block resonates at when it knocks is based on bore diameter along with other factors. The H22, during VTEC cross over happens to trigger the p30 and p72 knock boards, meaning the ECU pulls timing. The knock board in a p13, though in configuration is similar to the b-series ECU knock boards is set to respond to a different set of frequencies.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And could you show me where the 97-01 IAB trigger is the same as the 92-96? I don't have a prelude, but I have been told otherwise.


As for neptune, I'm impressed so far with what I have seen and read. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know who told you what, but if you trace the wiring diagrams in the factory service manuals for both OBD1 and 2 Preludes, you will find that the wiring for the IAB is the same. The GSR Integra changed it's wiring for IAB during the transition from OBD1 to 2. All h22 Preludes are set up in the same manner as the OBD1 Integra.

 

If money is no issue I'd go with S300.
Everything is just so easy. Crome on the other hand is just so affordable!
Kind of dificult to start with on your own but with a lot of reading, patience, more computer skills and more wires to go through Crome Pro will do as good as S300 ( without tech support though, only the PGMFI forum).
Just my 2 cents.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ag-Eng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is incorrect. You cannot run VTEC on a non-VTEC ecu without adding components to the ecu.

You may be able to control the IAB through outputs, but you will need to add wiring. There is no "Nitrous" output of a OEM ECU.

Oh, and if you cant plug in a parallel cable, maybe you shouldn't buy a Honda. Maybe a better choice would be a Kia or Ford.

I'll go with the "HACK" program "Crome" over Hondata anyday. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, AG-Eng........I guess youre finding out the hard way that Spunkster works for Hondata. I think his info is a little stronger backed than yours.
This should not be a Hondata VS Crome debate, but it sure is shaping up that way.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93sivtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Crome Pro is good for the price and capabilities,comparing it to s300 isnt fair,its like comparing the s300 to a fully probramable ems,cost wise also.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludecz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If money is no issue I'd go with S300.
Everything is just so easy. Crome on the other hand is just so affordable!
Kind of dificult to start with on your own but with a lot of reading, patience, more computer skills and more wires to go through Crome Pro will do as good as S300 ( without tech support though, only the PGMFI forum).
Just my 2 cents.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very well said! I know LudeCZ has run both in his car and works for a shop that has a Dyno and IS an Authorized Hondata dealer.
Some of us like to enjoy our cars and don't like spending countless hours searching and sending emails to get answers to questions, not to mention spending more time trouble shooting BAD SOFTWARE.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alphajesse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Crome has many unresolved issues related to high-rpm timing and the like.
Engines are expensive, using something that doesn't work right does not pay off.

Neptune RTP and Hondata S300 are both mature products that don't include untested and unsafe features.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its just a matter of time before engines start popping from people using the HACK programs. If youre spending money to build your car the right way, saving a few hundred and buying Crome seems like too many bullets in a Russian Roulette Revolver.

I personally will pay the extra money for Hondata and have a product backed by a Great Tech Support Staff and 1000's of hours of testing VS using a product that people HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH using.
Unopinionated about NEPTUNE but I have heard nothing but great things about them. One quote that sticks in my mind is NEPTUNE: The only system that has made my car run like it did stock.

 

And to answer your question, of course you can have better "power band" but how much depends on the skills of the tuner and the right parts in your car!!
For example on my nearly stock JDM H22 with Jun cams and cheaper headers with 2,5" collector after short street tune was like 184whp at 7000rpm and 147ft-lbs of torque at 5,500rpm.
After only couple of dyno runs with adjusting the maps 196whp at 7000rpm and 158 ft-lbs of torque at 5,500 rpm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mykizism &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i laugh at any "tuner" that says chrome is the ****..</TD></TR></TABLE>

You shouldn't have laughed.....He probably said IS ****!!!

Im sure anyone with a brain can figure out how to tune both, but I just don't trust these cheaper programs at all......
Fast and Cheap won't be good.....
Scripture has spoken.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ag-Eng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is incorrect. You cannot run VTEC on a non-VTEC ecu without adding components to the ecu.

You may be able to control the IAB through outputs, but you will need to add wiring. There is no "Nitrous" output of a OEM ECU.

Oh, and if you cant plug in a parallel cable, maybe you shouldn't buy a Honda. Maybe a better choice would be a Kia or Ford.

I'll go with the "HACK" program "Crome" over Hondata anyday. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are the one who is incorrect. Check the VTEC tab on Smanager for the s300.

 

your talking cheap, you said your a fan of the VAFC, thats as cheap as it gets outside of an FMU.

 

Anyone got a dyno tuned h22 map for s300?

I have an euror engine in an eg civic, ive been trying all sorts of tunes to get the car running right without success. I basically need a map that has a good ignition map. I have a wideband o2 for adjusting airfuel but dont have a decent ignition map to start tuning with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96vtecI4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your talking cheap, you said your a fan of the VAFC, thats as cheap as it gets outside of an FMU.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well for $100 used online and a few passes on the dyno VS ECU/Crome or Hondata;
On a basic bolt on setup I can get 15-20whp midrange and about 5-7 peak out of it.
Yes, I am still a fan of the vafc. Its better than nothing but not as good as Full Control.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RS2500 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone got a dyno tuned h22 map for s300?

I have an euror engine in an eg civic, ive been trying all sorts of tunes to get the car running right without success. I basically need a map that has a good ignition map. I have a wideband o2 for adjusting airfuel but dont have a decent ignition map to start tuning with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just PM'd you. Apparently people like my H22 Map, its been downloaded 47 times. It still needs a little fine tuning, but my car runs great with it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spunkster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You are the one who is incorrect. Check the VTEC tab on Smanager for the s300. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Spunk, there may be a "Tab", however in order to run VTEC you must have some components in the ecu to activate the solenoid.

If you have converted any non-VTEC ecu to VTEC you will notice that without the parts there is no physical connection from the ECU to the solenoid (The traces go no where).

So unless by some purely fine magic, there is no way electricity can jump trace points without transistors, switches, diodes, caps and or resistors.

I have soldered my share of ecus for Hondata and Crome. About 1000 or more so far. I have yet to see a non-VTEC ecu run VTEC without some type of component installation.


Oh, spunk..... HAHAHHAHA

Even Hondatas website says the same thing!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VTEC Relay Wiring Diagram

Some ECUs may not have the internal circuitry for some outputs. The following ECUs have the outputs listed already.

PR4:

A15 ACC
A20 PCS
A10 Extra Output
P06:

A15 ACC
A20 PCS
A12 FANC
A16 ALTC - must invert output
P05:

A15 ACC
A20 PCS
A12 FANC
A16 ALTC - must invert output
P75:

A15 ACC
A20 PCS
A12 FANC
A16 ALTC - must invert output


</TD></TR></TABLE>

So, without the components inside your ecu, you either have to add them, or run a external hack inorder for VTEC to operate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PleaseKeepOffDunes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">preludes suck </TD></TR></TABLE>

Care to elaborate on that you 07 n00b?!?!
You go drive your Economy car......you stink of jealousy.