I'm planning on cracking open my stock B18C5 in near future (low compression on 1 and 2, burning oil - suspect rings, will be doing leak test shortly...) I have never worked on engine internals and have been researching everything I can find.

I am planning to rebuild with stock parts, so this isn't really so much an All-Motor question, but figured you guys would know the most about this.

Service manual says to hone bores only if they have scratches the full length of bore or deep enough to catch a finger nail. If I replace rings and bores look / feel great, what should I do ?

I don't want 'less than optimum' compression and oil consumption by not doing it, but why does Honda not recommend it in that case ?

Any input appreciated. thanks.

 

Sounds like you're just wanting to take car of the car.

If it was me and I was going to use stock parts, I'd order new oversized pistons and have it bored.

 

if hte bores are good then its fine, but if you have problems already i would just to be safe. i have taken good motors apart to just replace pistons-rings and not done a hone with good results. but knowing you have low compression already, id deffinatly hone it.

 

You absolutely must hone the cylinders. It breaks the glaze on the walls and will allow the new rings to seat in and seal properly. If you don't hone it, your new rings will never seal right and you'll be back to square one.

 

Thanks for the info. If bores look okay, will likely lean toward a light hone to remove glaze etc - just seems like this would promote better ring sealing.

 

all a light hone will do is mess up you stock clearance, if you want to do it right just order over sized stock pistons and bore it 20 over then you will have no problems

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89EF_Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You absolutely must hone the cylinders. It breaks the glaze on the walls and will allow the new rings to seat in and seal properly. If you don't hone it, your new rings will never seal right and you'll be back to square one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not entirely true..

you can get good ring seal without a hone..its all in the break in..

i would rec'd a light glaze break..it wont hurt anything.and its easy to do

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itrdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't want 'less than optimum' compression and oil consumption by not doing it, but why does Honda not recommend it in that case ?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

because honda knows what they're talking about..if there is still a crosshatch in the walls then you dont have to hone or bore..as long as the taper is within specs etc..
just follow proper break in procedure..i rec'd a hard break in..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89EF_Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You absolutely must hone the cylinders. It breaks the glaze on the walls and will allow the new rings to seat in and seal properly. If you don't hone it, your new rings will never seal right and you'll be back to square one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no you dont.

i threw together a b20vtec for a friend of mine.. wiseco 2cc pistons, rods, stock b16 head and ITR cams

made 210hp and runs great.. just did that motor about a month ago.

another motor for a buddy, cracked a piston with an over boost, slapped some wiseco pistons in it w/o a hone.. no problems at all, makes good power and dosnt smoke at all.

 

A fresh hone also helps supply microscopic ammounts of oil to better lubricate your cylinder, I'd recommend a fresh hone every time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no you dont.

i threw together a b20vtec for a friend of mine.. wiseco 2cc pistons, rods, stock b16 head and ITR cams

made 210hp and runs great.. just did that motor about a month ago.

another motor for a buddy, cracked a piston with an over boost, slapped some wiseco pistons in it w/o a hone.. no problems at all, makes good power and dosnt smoke at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Did you warranty those jobs? If they smoked or had a 3% leak down you would redo them for free? What if the hone looks good but is out-of-round? Did you check?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Did you warranty those jobs? If they smoked or had a 3% leak down you would redo them for free? What if the hone looks good but is out-of-round? Did you check?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah these guys don't think of that, they just want to save money and they end up costing the customer more in the long run when it has to be sent to a real shop to get done right

 

I rebuilt a LS motor years ago because the oil rings were bad. All I did was put new oem rings in without honing and it never smoke or burnt any oil while I had it. Ran it for about 20k miles before I sold it. Maybe it wasn't smart, but it got the job done. But that was just a bone stock car for daily driving.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah these guys don't think of that, they just want to save money and they end up costing the customer more in the long run when it has to be sent to a real shop to get done right </TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope you're not calling jdogg an amateur...

 

anything worth doing is worth doing rite. Get some oversized pistons with new rings bore and hone to get the proper clearances. End of story.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Did you warranty those jobs? If they smoked or had a 3% leak down you would redo them for free? What if the hone looks good but is out-of-round? Did you check?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, generally i ONLY do this when the customer is severly pressed for time or money. and i do check the bores for roundness, etc.

does anyone warranty a performance engine build thats gona have the hell beat out of it?

lol, its a honda.. its gona smoke. and 3% leakdown... dont you know all the fast guys have 30 or 40% leakdown

 

Just curious, did any of you guys see the Omniman B16 200whp pump gas video. Just to play devils advocate, he used a ~16 yr old 200K mile block with no rebore or hone with new pistons and rings and had perfect ring seal.

Sure, in a perfect world everyone would overbore and match pistons, and since the original poster has an ITR, I would do that also. But, if the cylinders spec out fine, then a simple hone and fresh rings will not require an oversize piston and will work fine. It has been done for decades for the penny pinchers, but I agree not the 'perfect' solution.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all a light hone will do is mess up you stock clearance, if you want to do it right just order over sized stock pistons and bore it 20 over then you will have no problems</TD></TR></TABLE>What do you think they do after they bore your sleeves out? They hone it to give it a 60* crosshatch. For the amateur, go get a bottle-brush type hone...it will give you the results you want without taking alot of material off the sleeves. The bar type hones if used inproperly can definately ruin your bore clearances quickly...if you don't know how to use it. Basicly all you want to do is break the glaze, that's all...not take material off the walls. Also, rings under a microscope have alot of peaks and valleys to them. The rough cross hatch helps to knock those down flat to give a better seal.

 

OMFG......Worst debate ever!!

 

Didn't mean to stir up so much emotion !

I realize the optimum performance results would come from a bore / hone / oversized piston solution, but I'm looking to preserve this block as long as possible for as little money as possible, which means trying to avoid boring - car is used for DD and AX only.

Naturally, it will all come down to what I find in there, but I'm still tending to think a properly sized bore that has good hatching should be lightly honed as suggested by several folks to just break the glaze, which should provide a slightly better seal by allowing rings to wear in some.

Thanks for the input.

 

If you do a good job and don't abuse it, an overbore rebuild will last just as long as a stock engine.

 

I don't doubt that - my concern is that I will want to keep the car longer than that, which means resleeving or new block...

 

You can do .25mm now and .5mm later.

 

Ok - good point, but still don't want to have to pull block and pay for machining if I can avoid it right now...

 

A good bore and hone costs about $100-$200 depending on machine shop. My question is why wouldn't you do it?

 

Well, if you know what you're going to do regardless why are you asking us?