It seems that many of the younger ITR owners dont see the long term collectability of the ITR, When making comments like "it's just a car" or "it's was meant to be tracked, and thats it".

The muscle car era of the late 60's and early 70's produced some of the most desirable and brutally fast cars this country has ever made. There was such a large selection of muscle and pony cars at that time, that if you told any young kid of that era that his '69 Yenko RS/SS Camaro would someday become a coveted collectors item worth well into the six figures, he would have laughed in your face and told you that you were crazy. Plain and simple.

The mid 80's brought the 2nd wave of US muscle cars, or as some like to call it. The muscle car rennaisance of the late 80's. It began with the first roller cam 5.0 Mustang in 1985 which made 205hp, and was the first car to produce 14 second timeslips in stock form since the early 70's. Then came the 5.7 liter Iroc/Trans Am and the king-of-the-street '86-'87 Turbo Buicks. These cars were affordable and FAST! Not to mention very reminiscent of their 60's brethren with torquey V8's, posi rear axles, true duals, etc.

As Mustang 5.0's and 5.7 Camaro's battled it out on the street and drag strips all across America, there was a silent storm brewing over at Buick. And it's name was GRAND NATIONAL! These cars were way ahead of their time with sequential fuel injection, distributorless ignition, air-to-air intercooled turbo, and, super durable 4 spd auto that allowed easy cruising on the highway but had all the oomph needed for 1/4 mile blasts.

Many say that Turbo Buicks were "purpose built". They were fast, efficient, and, ran in a straight line with the best of them (including Reeves Callaways tuner Vettes of that era). From day one Grand Nationals, T-Type's, and, the almighty GNX became instant theft targets. These cars were stolen and chopped and all of the parts ended up on lesser Regals, Cutlasses, Grand Prix's, and Monte Carlo's. The same way ITR parts end up on Civics these days.

In my teenage years I owned a nice '86 T-type with bolt-on's that ran low 13's and was totally streetable. That car was stolen from me 3 weeks after I bought it. Once recovered it was nothing more than a gutted shell. The insurance money put me back into another Turbo Buick, but this time around I was WAY more careful.

In the late 90's I purchased a super-clean, low mileage (29K), 1987 GN from the original owner. I modded this car with bolt on's and a set of 17 inch wheels. Drove it for 3 years and sold it for $14K in may of '01. How did a 14 year old regal sell for that much dough you ask? Well, unless you've been hiding under an automotive rock for the last 15 years, you know how collectible and desirable Turbo Buick's are. To this day the TR market is STRONG.

The very same principles apply to the ITR, it's the hottest car of this generation, it's parts fetch top dollar on the street, and, it's limited production make it an endangered species. The car is a brilliant piece of machinery. It's fast, nimble, and, basically track ready from the showroom floor.

A low mileage ITR will be worth it's weight in gold 5 years from today, considering the rate at which they are being destroyed. 10 years from now it will be a top collectible, and 15+ years from now it's value will begin to multiply. If you can't see that on the horizon, then you're not a true car nut, and more likely an internet stunna.

Cars that have doubled, trippled, or, more in value over the past 30 years:

'66 Shelby 427 Cobra m.s.r.p when new: $6235, current unrestored value: $500,000 +, Concourse restoration value: $1,000,000+

'69 C.O.P.O. Camaro 427 ZL1 m.s.r.p when new: $5500, current unrestored value: $80,000+, Concourse restoration value: $100,000+

'69 HEMI Road Runner m.s.r.p when new: $5800, current unrestored value: $50,000+, Concourse restoration value: $100,000+

'87 Buick GNX (only 547 built) m.s.r.p when new: $29,000, current low mileage refurb value: $45,000+, Time capsule condition with single digit mileage $55,000-$75,000 depending on market.

'86 Buick Grand National (5000 built) m.s.r.p when new: $16,500, current low mileage refurb value: $20,000+/-, Time capsule condition with single digit mileage $25,000+.

I can actually go on and on with this list, but I'm sure you get the idea. I have a very strong hunch that the ITR will become one of these extremely rare, expensive, collectibles. And I didn't even get into vintage Jags, Ferrari's, and, Benz's.


[Modified by H-PIMP, 9:10 AM 6/1/2002]

 

 

What's the point? I'd rather drive the hell out of it, and have fun doing so. By the time it would be worth anything, I don't plan on needing the cash I'd get from selling it anyway.

Does that make me an internet stunna or just not a car nut?

I could never let the thing sit, ever. Maybe if I was lucky enough to have 2 I could use the "extra" as an uncertain 30 year investment.



[Modified by sackdz, 3:00 PM 5/30/2002]

 

Hell yeah, I always wanted a gull wing benz.

Collectible or not, I'm gonna enjoy mine while I can.

 

Well, I totally agree with what you're sayin H-PIMP, but I will still have some fun with mine. Believe me, even people that have collector muscle cars had some fun with theirs.

I've kept the miles down on my ITR ('00 with 10k), but I will still get on the roadcourse and AutoX. No wheel-to-wheel racing though.

You never know. So many have been stolen/totalled...they could be a serious collector's car someday.

 

What's the fun of not enjoying the car now, because there is a slim chance it may be worth more 10+ years from now?

I hate to break it to you, but there are FAR better ways to make money than investing in cars "potential" collector value.

 

2 ITR's is the way to go. One for fun and one in storage. But most of us are not that fortunate. Hey, I enjoy my car a few times per month but it's far from a daily driver. I plan on keeping mine forever adn picking up a CW and PY in the future as well. 3 ITR's and on GNX will make me a happy man

 

Im an internet stunna
I believe in driving my car as much as humanly possible. By the time Im done with
it, the odds say it wont be worth much, but i'll have gotten my money's worth

 

Nice generalizations for people that do not share your views.

I agree the ITR is a fantastic car but doubt it will be worth a million dollars years from now. Fact of the matter is people LOVE the ITR because of its parts interchangeability and decent performance for the money...FOR NOW. Look at what the other auto mfgs. are doing now. Family cars are coming out with close to 300 hp and in a few years, when 92-00 Civic hybrids become old, parts interchangeability on the ITRs wont mean much if anything.

While a few collectors have bought Type Rs for storage, most have not (no, I do not have data to back this up but I would hope we could agree on it). I would think their "hunch" is worth more than yours and mine.

 

I toss miles on my R like bugs on the front bumper. 28,ooo in 19months, Yeah I would like to be able to say in 15-25 years from now when I open the garage door look at this baby. BUT it aint No baby or ever has been babied!

 

I guess I am an internet stunna.

I also subscribe to Sports Car Collectible. You only have to read one issue of this magazine to realize that there will be ice skating in hell before the Type-R will ever be considered collectible.

Firstly, it is Japanese. Number of collectible Japanese cars: a handful.

Secondly, it is FWD. Number of collectible FWD cars: a smaller handful.

Third, its worldwide production run is 10,000-20,000 (perhaps more). Number of collectible cars with a 20,000 production run: none.

Fourth, apart from import car heads, most car nuts know next to nothing about this car.

 

Actually you're not "breaking" anything to me. My Pops is a stock broker, so I am very aware of ways to invest money that give far better returns than sitting on rare cars. I have a mutual fund and a tax-deffered annuity that will allow me to retire in about 25 years (early 50's). So keep the finnancial planning advice to yourself. I'm simply stating the reality of the ITR's collectability.

 

Very true. FWD, 4 cyl. Not going to happen.

 

Have you checked the blue book value of the first production run 1997 Acura ITR? You will be surprised at how much it has depreciated.

Especially, considering how much more that some had overpaid for the 1997.

 

Actually, 1997s often sell for $18k or so, which is about 25% depreciation assuming a $24k initial cost. That level of depreciation over five years is amazingly low. Many cars lose than in one year.

 

 

I disagree. 30 years ago, were there any significant number of "import" enthusiasts who loved hopping up high tech four cylinder engines? Not really. So there is not really a huge population base of older car enthusiasts that know and love these cars.

The people who frequent boards like this--people like US--are the people who will drive the collector market when we are retired and buying up cars for fun 30-40 years from now. We'll remember the cars we played with when we were younger, and go out and search for some nostalgia. WE are the future mainstream car nuts who will know lots about these cars.

Obviously, the ITR will not really become a Shelby Cobra, but it will definitely be on par with a Grand National (a car for which I lusted when I was in HS).

The Austin Mini Cooper S is a nice FF 4 cylinder collectible. I don't think the drivetrain layout has much to do with collectibility. Otherwise, the Pontiac Fiero will soon be a super collectible!



[Modified by Gansan, 2:59 PM 5/30/2002]

 

If you go to the bookstore and look up the value of the 1997 ITR, you will be surprised at how low it is valued at(less than it sells for usually). And I know a couple of guys that paid 28,000-30,000 with the dealer markup.


[Modified by t, 3:15 PM 5/30/2002]

 

If I could get a 1997 for $13k, I'd have two ITRs.

In the real world, they go for $17-$18k.


[Modified by norice, 3:16 PM 5/30/2002]

 

I'm thinkin about pickin up a 98 for 16k and I'll turbo that one, and beat on my NA as well. If they are ever worth serious dough you can RESTORE them....but I don't plan t ever get rid of mine so why even bother....

 

What about the 86 Dodge Omni GLHS? That car in good condition goes for around $10k, close to what it sold for new. How much do you think a 'standard 86 Omni goes for? And thats a FF 4 cyl.

I think to the R will become collectible as the years go by....we will be the ones 15+ years from now who thought they were cool 'back then'. just like the people who lust after 60s muscle cars today the most are the ones in the teens and 20s then. All that being said though...I still think these cars were meant to be DRIVEN and it would be a shame to see one not be.

 

Low mileage Omni GLH's still fetch top dollar to this day.

 

I am gonna enjoy my car as of now and which means it will see all the track times that I can afford to goto. 10 years from now, after my car's been wrecked and totalled..I'LL BE THE ONE to buy a fresh conditioned ITR for $50,000 and the cycle begins again.