After my timing belt broke, I had the valves pulled (8 intake are bent) and noticed my titanium retainers (not sure what brand, NOT Portflow) were badly worn. Keep in mind these retainers have had 3 different valve spring set-ups in their lifetime (about 35,000 miles).

ITR stock springs, Toda B cams
ITR outer, Portflow inner, Toda B cams
Toda springs, Toda C cams


Can you tell which is stock?





Anyone want to guess how long before they would have broke? How much lift I was missing? What the spring pressure was due to the height and wear?


[Modified by TodaSi, 2:46 PM 6/4/2002]


[Modified by TodaSi, 2:57 PM 6/4/2002]

 

bottom left = stock.

 

Excessive wear, see how thin and uneven the titanium ones are? They should be stock thickness, smooth, without the gouges. Look at the top of the retainer, it's the part that actually holds the spring, it's so worn it's paper thin.

Bottom right is a good example of the gouging, outter rim should be flat and smooth.

 

How long are retainers suppose to last?

 

.....what are you going to use now? Nitride treat?


[Modified by Black R, 3:18 PM 6/4/2002]

 

They should last the lifetime of the car, afaik

 

Gonna try the Portflow ones. I don't know why they wore so much, that's why I posted pics here.

BTW seat pressure was 35 lbs. Stock is 40 lbs, Toda (at the correct height is 50 lbs)


[Modified by TodaSi, 2:58 PM 6/4/2002]

 

Try Ferrea

 

Would cryo treatment help?

Willis

 

Not sure.....good question.

 

the local place charges by the pound... and they would be very cheap to treat.

Willis

 

it's kinda tricky to answer that,..

 

Wow !! Looking at these pic's has me worried about my Portflow ones that I have now...with only 10000km on them so far.??? Guess it's time for a look!!

 

The thicker one are the Ti ones ?

 

No, the thicker one is stock. The thin ones USED to be the same thickness....

 

No. There are three in the picture and one doesn't belong, which one's different, which one doesn't.......oops, sorry too much Sesame Street I guess.

One is the stock one (with 10,000 miles on it) which is the correct thickness, the other two are the titanium retainers that are worn very thin.


What Shane said.

 

Holy ****...that's a pretty bad wear on those retainers...

TodaSi, do you have ITR's lost motion assemblies, or are you still using the B16 valvetrain? I am not sure if there's a realation between the LMA's and the wear, but it's good to put that into consideration as well.

My Crower's TI retainers have been running in my motor for a good 35000 kms now, and if mine were to wear at the same rate as yours, I think I am running on no retainers now... but I am very curious to know the cause of the premature wear.

 

Damn, TI wore out like that....I think my Skunk2 ones are TI as well....

I wonder if LMA have anything to do with it ?

 

Nope, B16 LMA's, ect. Only ITR intake valves, Toda springs, titanium retainers (not Portflow), Toda cams of course.


[Modified by TodaSi, 2:47 PM 6/4/2002]

 

LMAs should have no effect on valvespring/retainers.
It WILL have an effect on valvetrain noise and vtec engagement.

 

SGT,

I guess this might be a noobie question but how does the LMAs effect the VTEC engagement and noise ? Also, does really matter if you use a ITR ones versus non-ITR ones ??

 

wow............i thought the valve spring itself would gaul and wear since titanium is much stronger............i would have never thought ti-retainers wear out........

makes me wish i kept my stock retainers instead.........

 

I don't think ti is necessarily stronger, just stronger for the weight. and really that is a simplification. check out http://www.merlinbike.com, they have a nice lecture on titanium (under technology, ti primer). and yes, i am nervous as I have 20,000 miles on my Portflow retainers!!

 

I don't believe the wear on my retainers is typical, as this is the first time I have seen major wear on a titanium retainer. I have heard of retainers breaking before but not from fatigue due to wear. I would like to hear from people who have recently looked at their retainers (stock or not) and share their insight. Ever seen this before?

 

just to be on the SAFE side with my motor, I'll be changing my timing belt ever 15k at least
and the retainers and possibly valvesprings and LMA's depending on wear every 30k or so....maybe water pump too and various other tiny things